[Ovalmeister]

Originally Posted by usac99 Thats funny the nascar fans at darlington stayed and watched one hell of a race , something to the tone of 35,ooo

Now there you go screwing up racerdog45's opinions with FACTS. Who do you think you are?
David.

Originally Posted by Ovalmeister You're right, Gold Crown is a dumb idea. We should drop the entire concept and go with your idea. Hopefully your idea involves more than internet sniping? We eagerly await.... David.

You're right and I'm wrong, we should go with an idea that already failed, costs car owners money they didn't get a reward on and will fail again instead of trying to support and build the series back we have now and had for how many years????? A series that just a few years ago BEFORE this gold crown mess was drawing good car counts, good fan base and sending drivers to other series. Yes you are sooooooooooooooooooooo right, this gold crown thing is the greatest thing since sliced bread! That's why NO ONE watched it, you want facts there it is NO ONE WATCHED IT OR SUPPORTED IT. You want a solution, dump the idea and let's rebuild the champ cars back into the GREAT series it was before a few people got the idea to take it to a higher level, a level it cannot and will not support. Champ Cars can be great agin, it'll take time, moreso now with the economy, but people, fans, love real champ cars with their hearts and will support and hang in there. I go to dirt champ races at Indy and Eldora, I go to see them at IRP. I support the champ cars as much as possible and will always do so. I'll be watching the real champ cars at Indy in may? Will you be supporting it yourself or on the internet pitching bad ideas to kill it forever.......

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by D.O. Russ that's a great comment except USAC doesn't own this series or make the rules. This complete deal has been taken over by Bruce Ashmore who redesigned the car and is building this first car with the new body. Ashmore for those who don't know has worked for Lola, Reynard, as the desigener of their sports cars and Indy 500 winning cars. Bruce Ashmore (born c. 1959 in Cambridge, England) is a race car designer who designed and developed 11 championship winning IndyCars with two different race car manufacturers, first with Lola Cars and then with Reynard Motorsports. After graduating from Cambridge Technical University he started working for Lola Cars in Huntingdon, England. During his seventeen years with Lola he worked his way up from intern to chief designer. Bruce was a member of the design team for many race car projects and was the chief designer on the T8800, T8900, T9000, T9100, & T9200 Lola IndyCars. Then, in 1993 Ashmore joined Reynard Motorsports to begin work on their first Indycar. Within two years Reynard overtook Lola to become the leading Indycar chassis manufacturer. Bruce's role with Reynard Motorsport took him to the United States where he setup Reynard North America (RNA) and later built the Auto Research Center (ARC) in Indianapolis, Indiana. ARC became the Reynard North American Headquarters. Between 1993 and 1998, he served as Technical Director for RNA and later also for ARC and then in 1999 became president of RNA. Ashmore joined Forysthe Championship Racing CART team in 2001. After two successful years with the team where he planned the Championship title bid in 2003 he left at the end of 2002 to start Ashmore Design. Ashmore Design has had contracts with Menard Competition Technologies, Menard Engineering, RuSPORT Champ Car team, Conquest Racing and more recently with C&R Racing Incorporated. Ashmore helped Chris Paulsen design the C&R Racing United States Auto Club (USAC) Silver Crown race car. It's Bruce's deal and money doing this. There are 23 of these cars owned by somebody, a couple of the owners are here on IOW and they like what is their future.

Since USAC doesn't own the series, will Bruce Ashmore be starting the new Gold Crown Series with out any involvement from USAC? The USAC release quoted said 10 races in 2010 with possabilty of road courses, will these cars be on any track next year?

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by racerdog45 Just in case anyone MISSED it, no one did go see the first time, guess you guys backing it MISSED that...... The NASCAR fanbase they wanted to attrct didn't want it, the Indy Car fanbase didn't want it and the dirt champ fanbase you had didn't support it and none of the above will this time, but keep making cute little qoutes, they might come on handy when you say the eulogy for this series IF it ever gets off the ground...... And I like the tea quote, you see that's the problem, most USAC fans are beer and cheeseburgers, cokes and hot dogs, the indy car/road race set are wine and tea and eating little sandwiches....

Hmmm...let's see...I like IndyCar & USAC as well as beer, wine, tea, cheese, Coke, hot dogs and little sandwiches. So which one of your little categories categories should I slot myself into?

I love the old days too (racing fan since 1955 in my case), but they are gone. All we have are photos and memories. Move on. It is what it is and either embrace it or move on to something else. There is nothing that can be done to bring back the old days.

Don't some of you ever get tired of griping? Tell me about how griping has helped improve the sport and moved it forward. The best way to protest is to vote with your wallet. Don't like Gold Crown or IndyCar? Then don't go and don't buy a ticket. That leaves more room for the real fans.

[mac miller]

Had they started with the correct car design, it would have been a popular new series.

By adopting the safety paranoid's dream car, it was a huge "no sale"

Here is where they should have started:

Let's all agree to disagree. I love silver crown, you want gold crown. Right now what I love is in trouble and what you want is still an idea that may or may not come to pass. As long as everyone has a good time at the races and then gets home safe and sound is all that matter........

Now off here and onto liveblock to buy some cars and sell some cars... got to make money to afford Ft Wayne, have a good day all!

[Lucky161]

Originally Posted by Ovalmeister You're right, Gold Crown is a dumb idea. We should drop the entire concept and go with your idea. Hopefully your idea involves more than internet sniping? We eagerly await.... David.

No, it's a good enough idea. But there are some significant questions as to the implementation. I personally have high hopes that this will work. I am also an admirer of Bruce Ashmore not only because of his previous work, but for his contention that Indycars can be feasible and safely built with tube frames. I have taken a lot of flack on other boards for repeating his contention.

It's been suggested that it will cost 1/2 million dollars to run a 10 race season for these cars. Compared to the cost of the Indy Lights series, that's a bargain and it was pointed out that an ARCA effort would cost twice that much. However the ARCA season is twice as long, so cost per race would be about the same.

Someone previously suggested a purse that pays $25K to win and $2500 to start. For 30 cars that's around a $200K purse. At 50% of the gate for a purse, that will require an average of 20K fans at $20 each. Does the series have any such races signed? I don't think I would be going too far out on a limb in saying that TMS could probably produce 60K fans twice a year. That's about what the Trucks do at TMS regularly. But TMS has some of the best crowds for all of their races, so that would probably be the high point not the average. Then again an average of 20K in attendance might not be unreasonable if promoted well.

I don't know how deep Ashmore's pockets are or how much support he has signed on, but there are some minimums that need to be met or this series will struggle. They need to have 30 cars at each race. Or at the very least 20+ cars with indications that more are coming soon. Anything under that should be considered demonstrations not races. That is a problem the first GC races had. 12 or so cars won't cut it.

It needs to be on TV. I don't see anyway that ANYTHING could have worse ratings than the IRL currently has. If they have sponsors ponying up $5-8 million a year for 20 cars with those ratings, surely sponsors could be rounded up that could justify 1/2 million a season for 30 cars for the same kind of ratings or better. $15 million should be a lot easier to attract than $120 million.

Concerning the ugly car. I am in the camp that says the car is ugly. But I am certain I can get over that if they'll get enough of them on the track regularly. This is racing, not a car show. If the cars are functional, the perception of beauty will follow. The current IRL car is considered to be ugly by many of their fans. Some of the recent F1 cars are extremely ugly. Short track modifieds can only be admired for their looks when compared to other short track modifieds. So what?

[Ovalmeister]

Originally Posted by racerdog45 You're right and I'm wrong, we should go with an idea that already failed, costs car owners money they didn't get a reward on and will fail again instead of trying to support and build the series back we have now and had for how many years????? A series that just a few years ago BEFORE this gold crown mess was drawing good car counts, good fan base and sending drivers to other series. Yes you are sooooooooooooooooooooo right, this gold crown thing is the greatest thing since sliced bread! That's why NO ONE watched it, you want facts there it is NO ONE WATCHED IT OR SUPPORTED IT. You want a solution, dump the idea and let's rebuild the champ cars back into the GREAT series it was before a few people got the idea to take it to a higher level, a level it cannot and will not support. Champ Cars can be great agin, it'll take time, moreso now with the economy, but people, fans, love real champ cars with their hearts and will support and hang in there. I go to dirt champ races at Indy and Eldora, I go to see them at IRP. I support the champ cars as much as possible and will always do so. I'll be watching the real champ cars at Indy in may? Will you be supporting it yourself or on the internet pitching bad ideas to kill it forever.......

In all seriousness, I understand the frustration with the current USAC pavement silver crown series. I too grew up watching them and loving them. I wish they had 70 cars entered again, like what we used to see at the copper classic.

Here's the problem. Even BEFORE the new gen silver crown car was first introduced, the silver crown pavement cars were in trouble. Tracks were being lost (as they still are now) because fewer tracks want to pay for them. The old style car can't run 1.5+ mile tracks, so the new gen car was invented. USAC screwed the pooch by not ADDING these cars to their arsonal, instead they REPLACED the old style cars with them. Bad move.

There are plenty of old style pavement cars out there. I would love to see the series built up bigger and better than ever. Please explain to me how it's going to get bigger and better if no tracks want to book them AND old tracks are dropping them? It's a hell of a situation.

Enter the Gold Crown cars again.
1) They are designed for 1.5+ mile tracks. In other words, not a threat to the silver crown cars because they run different circuits.
2) USAC is no longer involved.
3) NASCAR is no longer involved.
4) Road course experience to whomever wants it.
5) I attended several new gen races and the crowds were decent, sometimes BIG. Don't believe EVERYTHING Robin Miller tells you. He shows a clip from Thursday afternoon at Homestead with nobody there, and suddenly that's a normal crowd. He's a dick to put it bluntly.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the USAC silver crown pavement series has been in trouble long before the new gen car came along. If you can't understand that, then there's not much anyone can say to you.
Happy trails,
David.

Are we even certain there is going to be an IRL series for oval racers to advance to by the time this is implemented?
There's trouble in Circle City, Folks.
What if the IRL really does pull the million dollar payments from its race teams? We might have to worry about a 15 car field, rather than 33 cars. How many people did they send to the unemployment lines last week?
Jim Morrison

[Ovalmeister]

Originally Posted by bigmojo5 What if the IRL really does pull the million dollar payments from its race teams? We might have to worry about a 15 car field, rather than 33 cars.

Jim,
If that's the case we implement plan B.
We order 50 Eagle offy's from Dan Gurney, update them safety-wise with cages and modern tank bladders, etc...
We even bolt big wings on them at places like Milwaukee and have "outlaw" Indy car races to attract the World of Outlaw crowds.
You would have to turn the crowds away at the gate!
David.


They could look something like this: