Lawrenceburg - Flagman Starting the Race

Charles Nungester · 7/24/08, 7:39 PM

Please note that my dissagrement witht he starting procedure was in no way a shot at Tim Montgomery. I think he does a good job along with the rest of the crew. Just seems to be to many bad starts.

Thats only my view and isn't intended to insult anyone

Sandy Lowe · 7/24/08, 7:50 PM

Marv,

I'm pretty sure Dave Wilson is the starter at Union County Speedway.

Sandy

FishBurger · 7/24/08, 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy Lowe

Marv,

I'm pretty sure Dave Wilson is the starter at Union County Speedway.

Sandy

Thanks Sandy. That's good to know. Apparently, Tom Wieck liked Dave's work also. :thumb

Phylo82 · 7/24/08, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rudisell

Bottomline is this, the two cars on the front row watch for the flagman to drop the green flag and at the same time the lights turn green, everyone else behind the front row should be watching the car in front of them to go. That simple.
Thanks, Dave

That simple????

Fair enough.....what happens when the 2 cars up front (especially the 2-hole) break check to keep from jumping the start and everyone behind them starts running into each other?

Answer: A crappy start.....and most likely a restart.

That being said....I am done discussing this. If people can't see the problems this is causing then I am not sure what I can say to convince them. Seems to me some folks are so defensive about it they don't even want to consider another point of view....no matter where it comes from.

I will be instructing my driver to watch the car in front of him, ignore the flagman, hang back about 2 to 3 feet and go when the car in front of him goes. If it holds up the field behind him...so be it.

Dave Rudisell · 7/24/08, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phylo82

That simple????

Fair enough.....what happens when the 2 cars up front (especially the 2-hole) break check to keep from jumping the start and everyone behind them starts running into each other?

Answer: A crappy start.....and most likely a restart.

That being said....I am done discussing this. If people can't see the problems this is causing then I am not sure what I can say to convince them. Seems to me some folks are so defensive about it they don't even want to consider another point of view....no matter where it comes from.

I will be instructing my driver to watch the car in front of him, ignore the flagman, hang back about 2 to 3 feet and go when the car in front of him goes. If it holds up the field behind him...so be it.

Don't take anything the wrong way, we want good clean starts, what you just said is what you need to do, or better yet start on the pole. i am listening to you and to be truthful, if you have concearns you should of contacted me, and we could discuss the issue you are having. A message board is not the place.
Sincerely, Dave Rudisell
rpmproductions@comcast.net

Phylo82 · 7/24/08, 10:49 PM

Fair enough.....see you on Saturday, if mother-nature cooperates.

BOUNCE · 7/25/08, 8:33 AM

Going back in time, I remember when the use of a cone/line in turn 4 came about. The whole intention was to give a "reference" point to where the front row would begin picking up the throttle to lead the field to the green (start/finish line). What has evolved into "BAD" starts is a TOTAL result of lack of ENFORCEMENT. When someone back in the pack (let's say 12th spot) decided to jump as the polesetters hit that spot (cone)-decided to "JUMP" and pass before the flag stand, they were not penalized! Others had to also start racing (JUMP) in order to protect their position. (That's where all of this starting to race in Turn 3 before the Green evolved). In fact, some tracks/organizations even started waving the green when the polesetters hit the cone/line in turn 4 (Thus changing the start/finish line to Turn 4).

In regards to the "crashes" due to CLOSER starts, the driver's need to know not to hit the brakes! Just keep on the gas and lead 'em around through turns 1 & 2-slow down (in case of yellow/no start) coming out of turn 2/backstretch. The results of better starts will produce even closer/wheel to wheel racing! Instead of what we now see....follow the leader (train style) racin' even before lap 1 is complete!

Driver's can also enforce each other. I remember Sheldon Kinser back in the
70's... at the start of a USAC Heat Race, the pole setter was playing games..hit the gas..check-up..hit the gas, which caused the field to bunch up, etc. In the process, someone starting behind Sheldon was not paying attention and jumped over Sheldon's right rear taking Sheldon out of the race. When Sheldon walked back into the pit area, he only wanted to know two things..#1 Who was the "idiot" playing games up front and #2 Who was the "goon" that ran over him? Sheldon paid both of these racers a "visit" and the "long arm of the law" (Sheldon had fairly long arms) prevailed! Interesting enough, I never saw these two racers ever screw up like that again! The whole issue of good/clean starts boils down to ENFORCEMENT of the rule! That's all it takes! :checkered:

8/18/08, 6:36 AM

Im not clear on whats going on at lawrenceburg with these starts or why theres any confusion at all, but I do know you are correct in what you say, as I was a flagman at eldora and this is exacly how it suppose to be.
marty
x flagman

Dwight Clock · 8/18/08, 6:57 AM

Please understand that my following comments are not directed at any one flagman or track. The hardest thing to do on an original start is to keep the two front row cars side by side until they reach the starting line. The best solution to this problem that I have ever seen is known as a "Delaware" start. On a Delaware start the pole car is alone in the front row with the no. 2 & 3 starters side by side in row two, 4 & 5 starters in row three, and so on. The pole car watches the flagman and everyone else watches the car in front of them. The green is thrown not before the pole car enters the front straight. No passing until you hit the starting line. It works very well in putting a stop to jumping starts and therefore having to call back starts which, as Superduke alluded to, causes many wrecks. It's different so no doubt will meet with resistance but it does work.

Diggsy · 8/18/08, 7:51 AM

The only time I've ever seen a Delaware start, what we commonly call a Delaware double file restart, is just then...on a restart. Most late model sanctioning bodies use the Delaware double file restart on restarts during the race, but the front row is the standard 2-wide for the original race start. I've never seen an original race start with only one car up front.

7/24/08, 7:39 PM	#61 Re: Lawrenceburg - Flagman Starting the Race
Charles Nungester Senior Member Race Count This Year: 6 Race Count Last Year: 14 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 22,068	Please note that my dissagrement witht he starting procedure was in no way a shot at Tim Montgomery. I think he does a good job along with the rest of the crew. Just seems to be to many bad starts. Thats only my view and isn't intended to insult anyone __________________ Charles Nungester

7/24/08, 10:49 PM	#66 Re: Lawrenceburg - Flagman Starting the Race
Phylo82 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,055	Fair enough.....see you on Saturday, if mother-nature cooperates. __________________ Phil Heil #13e Maxim Sprint Owner, Crew Chief, Pit Crew, Hauler, Check Writer, Grunt

7/24/08, 7:50 PM	#62 Re: Lawrenceburg - Flagman Starting the Race
Sandy Lowe Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,715	Marv, I'm pretty sure Dave Wilson is the starter at Union County Speedway. Sandy

7/25/08, 8:33 AM	#67 Re: Lawrenceburg - Flagman Starting the Race
BOUNCE Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6	Going back in time, I remember when the use of a cone/line in turn 4 came about. The whole intention was to give a "reference" point to where the front row would begin picking up the throttle to lead the field to the green (start/finish line). What has evolved into "BAD" starts is a TOTAL result of lack of ENFORCEMENT. When someone back in the pack (let's say 12th spot) decided to jump as the polesetters hit that spot (cone)-decided to "JUMP" and pass before the flag stand, they were not penalized! Others had to also start racing (JUMP) in order to protect their position. (That's where all of this starting to race in Turn 3 before the Green evolved). In fact, some tracks/organizations even started waving the green when the polesetters hit the cone/line in turn 4 (Thus changing the start/finish line to Turn 4). In regards to the "crashes" due to CLOSER starts, the driver's need to know not to hit the brakes! Just keep on the gas and lead 'em around through turns 1 & 2-slow down (in case of yellow/no start) coming out of turn 2/backstretch. The results of better starts will produce even closer/wheel to wheel racing! Instead of what we now see....follow the leader (train style) racin' even before lap 1 is complete! Driver's can also enforce each other. I remember Sheldon Kinser back in the 70's... at the start of a USAC Heat Race, the pole setter was playing games..hit the gas..check-up..hit the gas, which caused the field to bunch up, etc. In the process, someone starting behind Sheldon was not paying attention and jumped over Sheldon's right rear taking Sheldon out of the race. When Sheldon walked back into the pit area, he only wanted to know two things..#1 Who was the "idiot" playing games up front and #2 Who was the "goon" that ran over him? Sheldon paid both of these racers a "visit" and the "long arm of the law" (Sheldon had fairly long arms) prevailed! Interesting enough, I never saw these two racers ever screw up like that again! The whole issue of good/clean starts boils down to ENFORCEMENT of the rule! That's all it takes! :checkered:

8/18/08, 6:36 AM	#68 Re: Lawrenceburg - Flagman Starting the Race
marty Posts: n/a	Im not clear on whats going on at lawrenceburg with these starts or why theres any confusion at all, but I do know you are correct in what you say, as I was a flagman at eldora and this is exacly how it suppose to be. marty x flagman

8/18/08, 6:57 AM	#69 Re: Lawrenceburg - Flagman Starting the Race
Dwight Clock Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,233	Please understand that my following comments are not directed at any one flagman or track. The hardest thing to do on an original start is to keep the two front row cars side by side until they reach the starting line. The best solution to this problem that I have ever seen is known as a "Delaware" start. On a Delaware start the pole car is alone in the front row with the no. 2 & 3 starters side by side in row two, 4 & 5 starters in row three, and so on. The pole car watches the flagman and everyone else watches the car in front of them. The green is thrown not before the pole car enters the front straight. No passing until you hit the starting line. It works very well in putting a stop to jumping starts and therefore having to call back starts which, as Superduke alluded to, causes many wrecks. It's different so no doubt will meet with resistance but it does work.

8/18/08, 7:51 AM	#70 Re: Lawrenceburg - Flagman Starting the Race
Diggsy Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 76	The only time I've ever seen a Delaware start, what we commonly call a Delaware double file restart, is just then...on a restart. Most late model sanctioning bodies use the Delaware double file restart on restarts during the race, but the front row is the standard 2-wide for the original race start. I've never seen an original race start with only one car up front.