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xoxide (Offline)
  #51 4/11/16 7:58 AM
Originally Posted by MRAY3:
That's very strange xoxide, since I have never spoken to Wayne about anything. You obviously have me confused with somebody else. Not to mention, I have certainly never needed help handling you in a message board discussion!
Nice try though.
You and I both know that's complete and total BS, at least be a man and own up to it....

"Mark Ray just got off the phone with me upset and telling me I need to control my racers and what they post on iow"

It's alright though I find it incredibly amusing, you told me I was hiding behind a keyboard, I post my name and phone number, a few hours later I get a phone call, but it's not from you, it's from Wayne because you weren't a man enough to call me yourself HAHAHAHA
MRAY3 (Offline)
  #52 4/11/16 8:23 AM
Originally Posted by :
"Mark Ray just got off the phone with me upset and telling me I need to control my racers and what they post on iow"
Well X, if Wayne really did call you and tell you that I talked to him, he is either a liar or he is delusional.

Delusional: "Having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions."
Andrew S. Quinn (Offline)
  #53 4/11/16 8:47 AM
Does everyone feel the love here?
3 Likes: Geoff Kaiser, Kellen Conover, MHess
Crankin (Offline)
  #54 4/11/16 9:26 AM
Im very calm Mark, and have been through everything i have said.
BUT. It seems to me that you live in a different perception of what i have been writing, and are waaay off the "Mark".

I CLEARLY stated i understand why you don't post a cost, and in all honesty, I don't care.

I do not need to go searching for your statements, it's been more than clear where you stand since you left the imra.

I now once again implore you to stop this, and as stated many times, just do your thing and others will do there's. Quit posting your negative outlook on social media and just go race wherever you're going to race.
xoxide (Offline)
  #55 4/11/16 9:30 AM
Originally Posted by MRAY3:
Well X, if Wayne really did call you and tell you that I talked to him, he is either a liar or he is delusional.

Delusional: "Having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions."
I am well educated and know the definition of delusional.... Actually, it seems to fit the bill pretty well for you.
Daddyz (Offline)
  #56 4/11/16 9:46 AM
Wow. That escalated quickly. I thought I was going to have to wait mid-season at least before the fan needed a good hosing off

Here I am, waiting for my driver to get back from college for the 2017 racing season, trying to decide whether I should build a D2, go back to micro racing, or maybe something else entirely (410's maybe?) and honestly I'm not even positive they'll be a D2 series around by then.

Maybe I should hold off on that trip to the salvage yard.
3 Likes: jdull99, TheSheriff, xoxide
Crankin (Offline)
  #57 4/11/16 10:16 AM
Originally Posted by Daddyz:
Wow. That escalated quickly. I thought I was going to have to wait mid-season at least before the fan needed a good hosing off

Here I am, waiting for my driver to get back from college for the 2017 racing season, trying to decide whether I should build a D2, go back to micro racing, or maybe something else entirely (410's maybe?) and honestly I'm not even positive they'll be a D2 series around by then.

Maybe I should hold off on that trip to the salvage yard.
And so goes my whole point, but i understand why.
Wayne Davis (Offline)
  #58 4/11/16 11:09 AM
Originally Posted by Daddyz:
Wow. That escalated quickly. I thought I was going to have to wait mid-season at least before the fan needed a good hosing off

Here I am, waiting for my driver to get back from college for the 2017 racing season, trying to decide whether I should build a D2, go back to micro racing, or maybe something else entirely (410's maybe?) and honestly I'm not even positive they'll be a D2 series around by then.

Maybe I should hold off on that trip to the salvage yard.
IS THIS WHAT EVERYONE WANTS!!!!

Racers to hold off because of what they read...I don't speak for every series on here but I am the sole founder of the name D-2 and the basic rules as far as bringing Lightning sprints and automotive engines together to race since 2010. Some started a few years later...Vern with Illini had a GREAT set of rules for 25 years and a damn good formula but did not allow the mini (Lightning) sprints to race with them, ours and a few others allowed Mini Sprints to run.

Here is the thing we all had the basic rules in place 80% the same but all of us had the same vision "more affordable midget racing"! In November of 2014 I reached out to KB of POWRi and we spoke of lower division of racing and told him what we where doing along with others around the nation and he liked the idea. We both understood that this was NOT an effort to REPLACE our big brother National Midgets but was a grass roots racing of allowing the less fortunate to go race midgets a an affordable price so the name "DIVISION II" was a good fit for what we all was doing.

KB wanted to help with bringing "US" together so he had a meeting at his facility in Oct. of 2015 to help hammer out a set of "National D-2" rules, and we did...Did I like everything we agreed on..NO...but at the end of the day WE (all) did agree.

So 2016 is the Inaugural year for NATIONAL D-2 rules. Will mistakes be made? You bet your asses it will...will some get their feelings hurt?...count on it....CAN we ALL learn from it and GROW as a NEW group of racers and be true to what D-2 is? I truly think so and dang well hope so.

In the end...HERE are the rules...they are written for 2016...2017 some might be added...some might be deleted...some might be upgraded.... But even then you will never ever please everyone...

If everyone will just calm down and let the series playout and at the end of 2016 we will know what was good and what was bad. At least for now you have "OPTIONS" Badger 2.4/POWRi D-2/USAC Speed-2/NATIONAL when it comes to midget racing. All this finger pointing and b-itching does no one any good. Look at how long our own beloved Tony Stewart took to come around on something that my have saved his life (Hans Device).

Buy, build, or convert which ever you want or can afford and go race...have fun...enjoy but give the powers to be a chance to work things out. We have (series owners) spent A LOT of time, effort and $$$ for this deal. So if you chose to support us GREAT...if you chose to do something else that's ok. But dam it give it a chance!!!

Southern Outlaw Motorsports
Jacksonville, Florida
The Original Southern Outlaw

www.SouthernOutlawPromotions.com


6 Likes: Avon Open Wheel fan, Bill May, DAD, DaGuy, Larson16, Tom23
DAD (Offline)
  #59 4/11/16 11:18 AM
Why don't We "Agree to Disagree". Like Mini Sprints D2 Midgets are a HOT TOPIC. I know Andy Bradley at the MMSA is got to be just loving this discussion. D2 Midgets show a lot of promise as a workable Midget class that would allow a lot of racers to take part in Midget Racing. That is the objective isn't it???

Engine builders have an interest in this class because that means extra sales. They probably have the largest amount of control over the different organizations. They tell the the the organizations what is needed and what it will cost and how they can help out in development etc, etc. (Some people will more than likely read between the lines at this point)

The chassis and general guide lines are pretty much outlined and settled. Engine Rules and specifications were put in place at several meetings this last fall. I have talked to several people that attended these meetings and from what I understand the people who had the most time and experience racing and running D2 Midgets were more or less regulated to the back of the room and the rules were changed by other people in attendance including engine builders. In my mind this is not how to do things. I said I liked a "Benevolent Dictator", Sounds like there were "Dictators" there but they sure the heck were not very "Benevolent". They set forth rules with profit in mind and to heck with the well being of the racer.

The guys making engine rules are still thinking in the past and the way "WE USED TO DO THINGS". These little motors ain't your dad's Oldsmobile. First off performance wise they are several time more efficient than that old "Cast Iron 2 Valve Push rod Overhead Valve Engine. They achieve to get more with less. Thank you EPA, and I don't say that very often. They do not intend for these motors to set around in Junk Yards for a very long period of time. After a couple of years they melt them down and turn them back into something else. A big advantage over Cast Iron. You will not be able to go back to a junk yard in 10 years and buy any parts for that 2.4 Ecotec because it will have moved on and came back in another form.

The rule makers have not yet got their hands around this concept. The old 350 Chevy's sat around junk yards for 50+ years not so the newer motors. Then>>>I hear that familiar argument>>>Heck you can buy aftermarket performance parts for the same price or cheaper than OEM Stock Parts at list price. LISTEN UP DANG-IT>>>If you have to buy parts to fix that motor you really don't want to buy that motor Most people do not realize what engineering marvels some of these engines are. They would be quite capable of powering a Midget race car right out of the wrecked car if they would fit in. They don't need a whole lot of work if the truth be known.

Then we got little Johnny Money-Bags with all kinds of Money and very little knowledge to go with it except for what he read in the Magazines. Has anyone ever wondered how many of these stories ended up in magazines? Have you ever noticed also the increase in advertising for certain parts makers that appear in these magazines both before and after that article appears telling about so and so's latest addition to the racing industry. I have been around long enough to see any of these things invented several time by several different people.

Now back to Johnny>>>Allow the engine parts people to make add on external accessories for these little Motors. Water Pumps, Dry Sump Pumps, Oil Pans, Valve Covers, and even fuel injectors. A few years ago the Mini Sprinters were faced with the prospect of a National group wanting to outlaw Mechanical injection their reasoning being to make it cheaper on the racer. The people wanting to allow the injectors to stay cited such facts like it make my Mini sprint look like a Midget and the safety fact that when the engines stops it cuts the fuel off, Not very good arguments in favor of the extra expense but at least arguments. Well they reached a stalemate, what happens is an injector manufacture steps up and donates some money to the group and buys some sponsorship. Low and behold Mechanical Injection was allowed and we all lived happily ever after. This would be but one example of how things work in the real world.

Now back to inspection and tec. Nobody wants a long tear drawn and tec after a day of racing and nobody wants to feel that they are getting beat by cheaters. That is a problem. Unfortunately the newer a racer is to the game and the more he is dependent on outside help to keep his race car on the track the more likely he is going to feel that somebody is cheating. The world is full of people that are more than willing to help him cheat also to keep up with these supposedly cheaters, thus we get involved in a never ending cycle and it only cost the racer.

It is very easy to devise methods to inspect motors. The invention of the inexpensive bore scope and measuring tools has helped a great deal. Rather than fighting with each other why not talk about inexpensive and positive ways to inspect motors. IOW is blessed with a lot of talent concerning mechanical matters. Coated pistons and light weight weight pins are not going to go a long way in making these engines more powerful. Porting, oversize light weight valves and components and higher compression will bump them up quite a bit. Why doesn't somebody like Esslinger devise an inspection kit that would be inexpensive and accurate to help the organizers have an efficient and accurate way to check the motors?

Then I always come back to my 10" right rear. Racers say well it will slow the cars down>>>Yep definitely>>>BUT is slow such a bad thing in racing. last night I saw a picture of the Great Jimmy Caruthers racing in his old VW powered Midget on Face Book again. I think he was at Eldora. He was down on the bottom the back end was all hung out and there was that skinny right rear tire throwing up a big old roster tail (NEAT). Some of the best midget drivers and the beat midget races have been raced on skinny tires.

Honest DAD himself
Likes: J47
Bill May (Offline)
  #60 4/11/16 11:34 AM
Dad, "Dang" If I had the foresight, I should have registered copyrights to the D2 title when I first posted "D2 Midgets" on here a couple years ago, I could put a stop to all this bickering, or cause it to be called something else. oh well, just another one of my brilliant thoughts gone awry.

Bill May
Likes: DAD
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