[jdull99]

Originally Posted by jdull99 275 HP motors...hard rear tires...I like the ^ shock rule! etc...all stuff that will never happen. You'll have to live near the arch to enjoy national midget racing on a regular basis...too many other options nowdays. Or there is always that excuse to blame it on the economy... Jason Dull 815 494 6002 jdull99@hotmail.com jasondull.com (For all the Racing News)

Forgot 1125 lbs (with driver) min. weight...

[767]

Fact is the top level is not going to change until either........A. someone lines there pockets, or B. they are forced to change due to no cars. I look at it this way, why would Usac, powi, or whomever else make a change? They have a back up plan..... its called Mini Sprints. if the Midgets die out, they will just start up a minisprint class and poof there are several hundred racers right back in there pockets. The big teams that can afford to travel now will be able to then as well. As someone said earlier, the fans don't care what they are watching as long as there is a good car count and they are competitive. All the top promotors would have to do is change there rules books. Most fans will never notice the change

[DonMoore10]

So true, 767. I'm still waiting here on at least one person to present their case in dollars and cents why we should keep the exotic engines.

[Manic Racing]

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 I currently own 5 of the exotic engines that the midget organizations have allowed to be used in competition. These aren't over the counter engines, they are expensive engines that are expensive to rebuild and they all need rebuilding once they have several races on them. Two of my engines need major rebuilds at this time. One is being rebuilt as I write this and I can tell you that it costs thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars for a rebuild out of my own pocket, midget fans. They are rebuilt with exotic parts that cost thousands and thousands of dollars plus $$$$$$$$$$ in labor. Many of the haves don't have this expense because they get free engines from the manufacturers. The have nots have to use money from their own pocket to rebuild. BTW, you can pretty much figure out who the haves are at a USAC race by just looking at the advertising on the side of their NASCAR type hauler.

There isn't a dollars and cents answer to the question you keep asking. The only answer is that we all want to win when we go to the racetrack. Whether its once or 50 times a year, whether its Montpelier or Belleville or the chili bowl. We want to win. That is why we have a fontana and you have 5 exotic/expensive engines. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it worth it? Maybe. Is anyone forcing us? No. I'm really kicking myself for not going to Belleville, wish we would've. All we can do is keep kicking and keep supporting in any way we can. Anyway, there is my 2 cents. I got work to do for a 2 race weekend. Hope to see many of you at wilmot and sun prairie.
David Budres
#31 BMARA midget

[DonMoore10]

I'm happy for you that this is not a dollar and cents issue for your team. If that were the case for most of the other teams, we wouldn't need to be discussing this issue on this site and midget car counts would not be an issue. As others have expressed on here, either something has to change or there won't be any races left and we are near that point now. Ten years ago when I became a midget owner there were any number of opportunities to race a midget in the midwest area. I've listed them before on this site and I won't do it again but midget racing opportunities are a skeleton of what used to be.

Once again I would like for someone to step forward and tell all of us what the issues are with using an OEM engine that can be rebuilt with over the counter parts and include the addition of a motorcycle engine as an option. Race fans come to the track today and expect large car counts. That's been proven over and over again by the fan posts on this site. They also want to see good competitive racing. Can this be accomplished by what I'm proposing? Yes. This is a win win deal for promoters, race fans, car owners and race organizations.

Are 30-40 midgets showing up these days at Sun Prairie? If not, why not? And...What happened to midgets racing there weekly? So is the midget climate better at Sun Prairie than 5 years ago?

I'm hearing from many of the racers that have bailed that it's too expensive.

[Racer56]

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 That's sound great. Then just keep running the expensive engines till there are no midget races left. We are almost there, guys. Belleville is the latest victim.

Blaming the lack of cars at Belleville solely on the basis that the current midget engines are expensive to run is very short sighted. There are many reasons for low car counts at Belleville. Promotion and sanctioning or lack there of, is the single biggest factor. What do you think the car count would be if Lanny Edwards and Emmett Hahn ran the race? In this poor economy, teams are choosing to concentrate on running series of their choice and not running "open shows". What would the car count be if it was a championship points race for multiple sanctioning bodies like it used to be? There is no such thing as an easy flip at Belleville. I know for a fact that there are teams and drivers that are reluctant to race at Belleville, for the simple reason a catastrophic injury or destroying a race car is a common occurrence there. Lastly, participation in all forms of motorsports over the last 4 years has been way down due to the economy and most peoples disposable income has all but disappeared. Expecting huge car counts at Belleville in this economy is just unrealistic.

[DonMoore10]

Since you are addressing me, please publish who you are and your place in the midget business. Thanks.

[Racer56]

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 Since you are addressing me, please publish who you are and your place in the midget business. Thanks.

Shane Scully, Started racing USAC Tq's in 1991 and USAC midgets in 1995 until a career ending injury @ Belleville while leading the Western states championship. I currently assist my former crew chief Jerome Rodela, midget # 25 and have won the Western states Usac championship three times. My grandfather started racing midgets on the board tracks at the Rose Bowl and I have been involved in racing my whole life. I have been a driver, car owner, crew chief, parts gopher and president of the second largest racing wheel manufacturer in the country. I was one of the first midgets teams to secure corporate sponsorship for my racing endeavors and know what it takes to field a competitive midget for a whole season.

[Kuhn74]

@ Don Moore

PLEASE get off your soap box. QUIT complaining and continually being a part of the problem and not the solution. Your solutions will cost people plenty of money in the short term. That, in effect, will take several years of time to average out over being a good decision. We are a society of immediate gratification and people don't want to wait 6-7 years of time to see a return on their money, if it ever actually happens.

If your ideas are the savior for all of midget racing.........PLEASE stop wasting your time on this message board and your money on over priced midgets and engines and utilize your new found time and money to start a new midget series. That series would then be capable of running anywhere you choose in Northern Ohio for any amount of money you choose, without charging a pit pass fee for the entertainers, and you could use a conventional midget chassis with either a motorcycle engine or a junk yard engine and have yourself a dandy old time.

Your cost basis for midget racing is interesting to me as well. It is expensive, it always has been, but people always find money to go racing. It is easy to blame the economy, but racing has a very similar parallel to life............those that are willing to work hard, tend to get more out of it.

These message boards piss me off talking about $40,000-50,000 midget engines and these glorified mega teams that spend millions of dollars racing one midget for a national championship. Neither one of these two are actually true.

You can purchase a brand new engine from FONTANA AUTOMOTIVE right now for $32,500 and I know that Gary Stanton sells the Toyota engine he builds for that same amount. Dan Esslinger also sells his National engine for around the same.

Furthermore, in a effort to help out lower budget teams, we have a program available to allow racers to buy slightly USED engines out of the RW #17 for $25,000, freshly rebuilt, right off of the dyno. This also insures that people understand that they are getting the exact same engines that we race in our own cars. They are not something special with some outrageous price tag that is unattainable.

Both Fontana Automotive and Esslinger have lower cost alternatives to the "National" engine if you so choose. But that is just it Mr. Moore, it is up to the guy that writes the checks what he purchases. On your team, that is you. However, for every other team in the USA and elsewhere, that is not you.

Mr. Moore, you should actually reach around behind yourself and pat yourself on the back...........because, I always lurk on these boards to get a temperature of the water on different subjects, but I rarely respond to anything. You have accomplished something here in my book.


NOW, as you so famously tell just about everyone on every topic........GET BACK ON TOPIC. This thread started about BELLEVILLE. How can we make BELLEVILLE better? How can we restore the luster to this Historic event? For those of you reading this (that I haven't pissed off yet), please contact the Fair Board. Give them suggestions. Don't be mad if they don't use your suggestion, but just be willing to provide them some great ideas. Even if you yourself get nothing in return.


Should the purse structure be changed? Higher pay to start and lower pay to win? It seemed to work for the Gundakers last year at the Gold Crown race. Should USAC come back? Should we all contact our local clubs and begin a gentleman's agreement to not schedule races against Belleville? I mean, honestly, it is only one race a year. Should the Fair Board look at moving the date? Does it still need to be during the Fair? I know that is part of the atmosphere, but not many of the fair goers seem to still be on the racetrack bandwagon like they were in the past. Should the format be changed? Should every organization make this a points paying event like it used to be.

One thing is for sure, I would like to see this and many other Historic events on the midget calender stick around. I encourage others as well to contact the Fair Board with suggestions. Email or call USAC, POWRi, Badger, RMMRA and encourage them to support this event. Encourage them to help bring it back. Encourage them to not schedule against it. ENCOURAGE them in general, don't throw stones at them or tell them how they have done it wrong in the past. We cannot change the past.

I am done with this rant now. I too will now get off my soap box and get back to work. If you would like to further discuss this, please call me.

Thanks,
Brad Kuhn
(317) 852-1791 - Fontana
(317) 373-0351 - Cell

[zeromotorsports]

$25,000 is not a good deal for a USED motor, esp a fontannnnnnna. You can spend conciderably less on a good used esslinger. My 2cents
Johnny murdock

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