That is HILARIOUS ... you take the low car count for the year and the low car count for another year and use that to justify that the average car count has dropped close to 50%!

Welcome to Don Moore Math 101 ... It doesn't take a teacher to realize that is not a very logical approach.

What about that midget group in PA, ARDC? They had their highest car counts ever last year probably.

Then again, we wouldn't want to look at anything positive, would we.

Keep spinning guys. You're making me dizzy. Sounds like you're having a bad hair day with that 50% statistic. You may want to call the EMS paramedics. Here are the results from the 1999 Hut Hundred. Call an undertaker. Let me refresh your memory. 22 cars showed last year for this historic race. Yeah, 22 cars. Start spinning, guys. That's a 66.6666666% drop in car count. I also see that approximately 50-52 of the 64 car owners are either out of business or have dropped off the face of the earth. Thanks.

USAC: MCI WorldCom National Midget Car Series Race Results, Hut Hundred
3 September 1999

USAC MCI WORLDCOM NATIONAL MIDGET CAR SERIES RACE RESULTS: September 1, 1999 -- Terre Haute, Indiana - Terre Haute Action Track - Hoosier Lottery "Hut Hundred"
QUALIFICATIONS: 1. Clay Klepper, 17, Hartman-22.405; 2. Jason Leffler, 9, Lewis-22.518; 3. Dan Boorse, 88x, Boorse-22.992; 4. Michael Lewis, 85, Lewis-23.012; 5. Johnnie Crawford, 1st, McKinnie-23.149; 6. A.J. Fike, 69, Fike-23.234; 7. Tracy Hines, 32, Martz/Boles-23.327; 8. Walt Stearly, 42w, Stearly-23.397; 9. Andy Michner, 26, JS-23.398; 10. Critter Malone, 7m, Malone-23.427; 11. Steve Paden, 17H, Hartman-23.543; 12. J.J. Yeley, 6, Potter-23.650; 13. Davey Bray, 33, Ray-23.720; 14. Kevin Doty, 11w, Wilke-Pak-23.741; 15. Mark Freeland, 4, McKeehan-23.779; 16. John Lucas, 52, Lucas-23.792; 17. Russ Gamester, 29, B & B-23.796; 18. Nick Lundgreen, 49, Lundgreen-23.835; 19. Randy Koch, 82, Kittleson-23.847; 20. Bill Baue, 10, Baue-23.916; 21. Jerry Coons, Jr., 7, CED-23.930; 22. Jay Drake, 15, Lawson-23.968; 23. Steve Knepper, 55, Knepper-23.982; 24. Steve Barth, 14, Barth-23.995; 25. John Heydenreich, 95, Covington-24.046; 26. Kevin Newton, 14x, Newton-24.048; 27. Travis Welpott, 18, P & E-24.158; 28. Dave Darland, 91, Lewis-24.185; 29. Matt Westfall, 54, Westfall-24.191; 30. David Bridges, 11, MB-24.204; 31. Tony Elliott, 66T, Lamers-24.222; 32. Donnie Lehmann, 31, Lehmann-24.227; 33. Johnny Parsons, 41, Griffith-24.228; 34. Ralph Liguori, 6rr, Ligouri-24.236; 35. A.J. Felker, 37, Felker-24.253; 36. Rick Treadway, 88, Treadway-24.356; 37. Jerry Nemire, 16s, Nemire/Yager-24.360; 38. Kevin Koch, 15k, Huston-24.389; 39. Dane Carter, 77, Carter-24.556; 40. Adam Clarke, 76x, Clarke-24.577; 41. Jimmy Davies, 97, Davies-24.648; 42. Scott Hatton, 11x, Wilke-Pak-24.666; 43. John Nervo, 21, Nervo/Coggin-24.776; 44. Jack Hewitt, 23, Parker-24.786; 45. Andy Pierce, 3p, AMS-24.801; 46. Brian Gerster, 41x, Huston-24.932; 47. Dean Franklin, 84, VanSteenwyk-24.933; 48. Ron Smoker, 24, Parker-24.951; 49. Steven Graham, 14A, Graham-25.005; 50. Boyd Calvert, 23x, Calvert-25.024; 51. Ryan Newman, 60, Potter-25.067; 52. Tony Beaber, 66, Beaber-25.115; 53. Ed Carpenter, 3, TG Racing-25.162; 54. Jason Lynch, 35, Lynch-25.286; 55. Wayne Chinn, 71x, Chinn-25.330; 56. Michael Roselli, Jr., 98, Roselli-25.382; 57. Mike Hess, 51, Hess-25.467; 58. Scooter Ellis, 73x, Ellis-25.516; 59. Chad Davenport, 43, Davenport-25.739; 60. Jeff Flesher, 72, Flesher-25.833; 61. Roger Branson, Jr., 3x, Branson-26.396; 62. Bill Schemonia, 17s, Schemonia-26.541; 63. Roger McCluskey, Jr., 111, McCluskey-27.384; 64. Robert Keelan, 17x, Keelan-NT; 65. #9x, Lewis-NT.

Mr. Parks, thanks from some insight from a sanction point of view. Interesting perspective.

Don, wasn't there a conflict with midgets race dates between organizations last year between THAT and a track in Illinois and a 10,000 to win sprint car race in Lawrenceburg?

Meanwhile, the car counts from the 1999 Turkey Night to 2008 and the 2000 Night Before the 500 (I couldn't find '99 results) both went up. Those races are on pavement, which we would all agree has been worse in terms of rising costs.

Now, instead of making these statistics say something that isn't really true, I would just ask that we try to figure out why these problems haven't affected these large pavement races. I mean, Turkey Night had 64 cars this past year!!

Tires are worse on the pavement side, correct? So what I ask is, why are these races (and pavement midget counts are up or holding steady in general throughout) doing well? Why are IMW car counts good? Why is the Chili Bowl bigger than ever? And why is the Hut Hundred almost dead (and I can tell you, they won't have any cars this year, either)? Why is Badger hurting? Quite frankly, you don't need a high-dollar USAC competitive car to be tough with Badger, so why is the count going down?

Completely off topic. We were having a conversation about the attendance at Sun Prarie for the last 10 years. Why did you bring up another race track, with a different sanction, in a different state.

Changing topics in mid-thread is no way to defend a bad position.

If I really wanted to, I would actually do the research to figure out the growth that the Chili Bowl has in the last 10 years. I am guessing that the number is well over 50% growth.

You're really getting desperate now with the Chili Bowl. Uh.. guys.. Go back and read my original post and write your thoughts on how you're going to get midgets back on the track. Yeah, do something novel and post something intelligent that will help revive the sport.

The thing left out of this is the fact that at the time of the 1999 Hut 100, 16th Street Speedway had recently run it's last race and NAMARS was still being run by Jack Caklabrase. Both where very successful in producing great midget fields. Neither series went by the way side because of car counts, they went by the wayside because Jack sold his interest in NAMARS to a person who didn't know how to treat teams and tracks and 16th street didn't have fans. The car counts where great for both deals.

I don't remember the year, (I think it may have been the night Vince Osman was killed in a sprinter) but we by-passed a 16th street race for a show at Kokomo and I believe that in the state of Indiana that night there where over 80 midgets running between the two. The reason wasn't that the tires where any cheaper or the motors much cheaper(A Gearte or Brayton was about $20,000/Esslinger was $18,000 I believe/Pink Ford was $30,000 and I'm not sure about Fontana) it was because there where two other organizations PROMOTING midget racing in pretty much the same platform it is today.(The show at Kokomo may have been A NAMARS Five Crown race. Which has basically morphed into Indiana Midget Week. So between Wisconson,Illinois,Indiana, and Ohio/Michigan area you had 4-6 organizations promoting midget racing.(Depending if you put UMARA and The All-Star Midgets in there.)

According to my numbers(Which are a guestimate at best) between 16th Street Regulars, USAC Regulars, and NAMARS regulars, that made up around 50 of the cars that Attended the 1999 Hut 100.

Last year on the night of the Hut 100, there where over 50 cars partcipating in midget events witin 300miles of each other as well as a Sprint Car race that drew a large car count and paid more to win than both races combined. I personally think that that is alot of midgets considering the other options people had.

I may be completely wrong about this, but I do not believe we will be able to find promotors to put on IRS type shows(I use them as the example as this is basically the series who's rules pkg. we are talking about) for the purses we see midgets running for today. The Focus series couldn't command higher purses and I do not believe that IRS series will be able to either. People already have a hard time getting promotors to put on Midget shows for the higher Powri and USAC purses because it is hard to show them that these classes justify the higher amount. With so many Local sprint shows and then throw in traveling sprint shows that will undercut purses for the sake of a date, it's hard to sell this product. In many ways Sprint Car racing today is what Midgets where in the 40's-50's.

Now, If the ASCS puts together a pkg. and the costs are cheaper and they are willing to pay equal purses to Powri and USAC and if Iaia can keep up with motors and they schedule the shows with their sprint cars, then that may work because of their reputation and their dedication.

It seems to me that people think things just "happen". Like costs of racing and decreases in purses just "happened", like they're an act of God and there's nothing anyone can do about it. People are responsible for the direction that everything goes. Racing has always been about a man's ego and they will spend almost anything to beat the next guy, regardless of the purse. Why do you think people are spending $30,000 on a motor alone to win $4,000 or less?

Don, unfortunately there are too many people with more money than you who choose to spend it on a race team. If you believe there are enough owners out there who are tired of spending money, then your efforts would be better focused trying to organize this group of owners and promoting yourselves to area tracks instead of posting on a message board that clearly doesn't want to be part of anything you have to say, regardless of its validity.