Bob

I think that was the 1973 oil embargo. I can remember taking a truck load of Quarter Midgets out to the QMA nationals being held in San Jose Ca. that year. We were running low on gas and stopped to find some gas in Utah and the gas station guy telling us that the closest gasoline was up in Idaho. Yes we carried extra gasoline but ran real close. Then we brought 20 cases of Coors back to help finance the trip. Do you know that that stuff wasn't Pasteurized.

The way I see things going down is. We have two classes of race cars being real close together in performance.They are the TQ Midget and Mini sprint. Both are very close to one another in cost and performance. They are both looking for a larger car count although I sometime wonder why. Both can still field 20 or more cars per race, enough for a good main. The Tq's need to be looking for a new power plant as the old 750 Honda's are getting harder and harder to find. The inexpensive motorcycle motors for Mini sprints are also getting a little harder to find especially those that are good enough to race without having yo spend an arm and a leg to overhaul. If the TQ's switch to a modern day 14000-15000 rpm motorcycle motor they are not going to be able to get a gear ratio that will work for their cars without going to some kind of transmission device.

We might say both classes are going to have to change. The TQ racers think that chains are best left to bicycles, and the mini sprint racers think that Quick Changes are just out of the question because of the EXTRA "expense" involved??

Back in days gone by when people built their own race cars (some good some bad) both classes of cars would have run together. Drive shafts and Chains raced together in Harmony and every body had fun.

In the case of TQ's an enterprising young man came along with an old German outboard motor that was also chain driven. He wiped them so bad and so often that the powers that be were sure it was that motor and not the guy's driving ability that was beating them. So the best way to fix that problem was to ban the chain drive.

The Mini Sprint racers "ASS"umed that quick changes were just too expensive to start with and never gave them a second thought.

Both classes started out as a low cost form of open wheel racing and like everything else that people progressed up the ladder to more and more expensive forms of racing. If a guy can afford a $20,000.00 Mini sprint he can probably afford a $2,000.00 rear end.

We need to sit down and develop a class standard somewhere in the middle of these two classes to help bring the cost of racing back down for all of us. Wayne down in Florida has come up with division II Midgets. I think he is on the right track. The car that Bob found on EBAY might well be the Division II> Mini> Tq of the future. When looking for a cheap high Horsepower, low weight motor we might just start looking back in the Auto Junk Yard for what we need to go racing with.

Honest Dad himself

Yep, 1973, I remember early Sunday mornings thru the tip of Indiana, and across Illinois, everyone's yard had at least 2 little oil wells, just strokin away, beat the hell outa raisin chickens, and sellin eggs, just sit on the porch and watch the cars go by, and watch the meter on the oil tank, didn't want it to overflow. DAD, I got away from the SOHC Honda in 2005, and never looked back, I run an undersized motor, that doesn't require any special parts inside, and they are CHEAP, I have yet to put in any new parts, when I tear one down to cut the case, no need to, compression is still what the rebuild book says, and so little ring tension, unless you flooded it with dust, it wouldn't wear, same with brgs, look good, use em. That little motor has made me a lot of money, and cost me hardly anything. It is as competative as I want it to be, imagine how long I would be allowed to run it, if I "worked" on it, it's a top 5 car about anytime we go out. My first car was one that Ronnie had driven for Dwenger, with the "two smoke" in it, I still have the motorplate that they ran with the Konig, and then the Honda. You're right, no one ever considered the driver as a factor, and the chain drive only let them get the gear low enough for it to do it's thing, after the chain drive was "banned", they went to an old Casale quick change, and chg gears were available down to 16-1, and I still got em! I have no trouble getting my 14,500 rpm, 600cc motor on the pipe, but I am working on a newer ring and pinion that will let me do other things, and allow others to buy the parts necessary to make this happen. The final thing with the Konig was, they cut the cc's so low, it was just time to move on, so the same guy had to show them all over again, that it wasn't the motor. The only thing I've ran into so far with the high RPM's, is the nose brg in the rear end, so I've gone to a different brg, and of course more expensive, but in all these seasons, it has been one brg bought, so it ain't like changin one everytime you change oil. Yeh, we travelled in packs, and everyone had at least 10 extra gallons of gas on board, plus if push came to shove, we could always get gas off one of the locals. When all that started, we were on our normal Sunday morning trip, and were going thru the tank farms in lower Illinois, and I woke up the wife, and had her take some pictures, there were those silly asses, out there on Sunday, adding new tanks, and making the old one's taller, evidently they hadn't got the word about the oil shortage! Oh well, it did one thing, they got paid good to do it, and the oil and gas also got paid for! Bob

Bob

Don't know what I done, but I seem to have stripped a gear again. We just stopped advancing up to the top of the post's anymore. Hope it wasn't anything I said?

Both classes are so close together in so many ways, and so many DOHC motors are out there in junk yards now I just think the day of the Motorcycle motor powered race car like the Harley and Crosley powered cars of the past might be numbered.

A little Ford, Gm, Chrysler or even some Import power plant is just waiting out there to take over in a low cost race car. Which one is the best?? I don't know. But I bet that there are a bunch of Young guys out there like Bob or Ronnie that would be out there experimenting. That is if we design our rules so that they have enough room to experiment with the technology we have available today.

Low cost auto racing needs low cost power plants. I wise man once said that the chassis is the cheapest thing on a race car.

Honest Dad himself

PS Bob I never thought about them pinion bearings going 15000 RPM's. Wow I guess that thing between the drivers legs is also spinning that fast?? Need to look at a gear box huh.

DAD, the spinning driveshaft between my legs doesn't bother me, what does bother me is someone doing a reduction right there on the motorplate! That has happened, and that's one reason the rules on the TQ's are so tight there, to keep bigger, heavier parts from grenading in someones "jewel pad"! I have another, safer method of getting it done, in parts from the past, but I believe the ring and pinion are where the solver of the problem is, but, on the other hand, there are other chg gears out there, all you have to do is ask, just because one company doesn't list them, doesn't mean they or someone else can't or won't. It's kinda like all doors don't open by themselves, you have to ask sometimes, I've got gear sets way past #32, how about 33, 34, 35, 36, and with a 5:38, that'll get ya there, close to a 14.5 to 1. At Madison, I got gears to turn 13k+, and still run a 72-74in RR, and that's where that little Yamaha loves to run. To start all over now, will be a challange, and it might get way outa hand, but I think the future of "midget" racing, is sitting right under our noses, in "auto recycling yards"! I like to build my own stuff, from the rubber up, always have, might not be what the next guy does, but at least I'm doing it myway, I see some things I like, and I'll buy them, which goes back to something else, I also have a complete machine shop, which I built up over the years, I even digitized my old Bridgeport, I let it do the grunt work, than I finish it, I need parts, I make my own patterns, and have them cast, cause I'm lazy I guess, and, it's a bunch cheaper and quicker, and my broom lasts a lot longer. Right now I'm visualising a Nissan, or a Toyota, maybe even an S-10 as a starting point, and a midget chassis, or something that will fit in the TQ size, as a basis, and working up from there, I may not get one done, but maybe someone will! Funny thing, I used to go to Dayton's auction, every year over Thanksgiving, that was almost as hard to do as leaving Christmas morning, to race at Daytona, wife wise, but anyway, I got to watching every year, the same bunch of guys, buying up all the old, or cheap sprint cars, I mean anything that would roll, was fair game, so one night after the auction, when we were claiming the goods we had bought, I asked one of them, just flat out, WTH do you do with this crap? He didn't even swing at me, he just said "we take em back to Missouri, and put Pinto motors in em, and rent em out to race", just as serious as a heart attack, now who woulda thought it, but they went everywhere buyin that stuff, Dayton's was just a stop on the way. The midget that's on ebay, guess where it's from? Bob

DAD, I just figured out what you meant about "not advancing", I thought it was something to do with my computer, and my Droid, but I figured out how to get it back up, but it won't stay up, I guess a lot of us have that problem, maybe Bill can shed some light on the problem. Anyway, maybe it'll stay long enough for someone else to pitch a line in, might catch something yet. I was thinking of using a pickup, when I first opened my big shop downtown, I bought an abandoned, 1976 Toyota for $75.00, it was a 3 cylinder, it had thrown a rod out the side behind the starter, and we drove it home! I put another motor in it, and used it for a shop truck for many years, and it was a puller, then I bought another Furrin truck, and it just didn't know when to stop pullin, sure beat that "shifty" S10 that I had bought new, then I went thru the deal with customers and WWII, and me with a Japanese, built in Canada, service truck, so I went to a Ranger Splash, 4.0 with a chip, and it would deliver! Anyway, that is the area I may begin my search, on paper of course, too cold out right now, but it won't be long. Mazda was my truck of choice, and a heart of a big horse. Bob

I was wondering the same thing. This has turned into a great conversation and it keeps going deeper in the hole in the posts line-up...... What gives?
I was thinking really any newer 4 cylinder, new set of injectors, and a good e85 or methanol tune would do the trick.

I really doubt any of those old models would be around, "cash for clunkers" took care of that, and put a lot of people in debt they didn't need, then we had to bail out the car companies, and yada, yada, yada, but, I was using those as examples of good basic somewhere to start pcs, the newer ones of course will cost more money, but you know, a couple of grand will buy you a decent beater, high milage truck, and the more it's beat up, the chances are better to be able to negotiate on it, then you got someplace to start, course it won't be like back in the day, you won't have a garage full of guys everynight to help, so figure on going it alone, too many guys don't get excited about cars anymore, unless it has a 5k stereo in it, and can take the doors off sitting still, but maybe you can figure where I'm coming from, I have a neighbor who has a "profesional student", now studying to be a Dr, so he has to pinch where he can, he is a Honda man, and not that much of a mechanic, but with his dad, and me to guide, he has kept that kid in cars for about 6yrs now, hail damaged, tired of it, bought a new one, just gets em give to him, a few bucks later, it's back on the road, same deal could apply to a truck. Think on it, might be a fun project. Bob

Haha....I'm the king of building cars alone. No one around here is into open wheel racing for the most part....lol I call my shop Aftermidnight Motorsports because I do most my work when everyone is sleeping and no distractions for me.... around here, it's all about the diesel truck guys and pulling.

I can't get this thread to come up on my Droid, something ain't right somewhere. I used to have at least a half dozen guys in my shop everynight, then Wed nights started turning into Thurday mornings, and someone had to work to buy the beer, so one night I got up, and fired up my mill, and went to work, and slowly they picked up their coolers, and left, and I don't see them anymore, course they are now all married, and have things to do, so I'm back like I was many years ago, by myself, which in some ways, works out pretty good. Some one told me one time, that it didn't look like I had enough room to pull the rear end out, and I said, "I wouldn't know, I've never tried, I just take it apart to take it out, no help, I do it that way", works for me, and I don't bust any body parts, and in a way, it's as quick, and simple. Bob

Ya All

I think this makes the third different post that I made that got relegated to "cyber purgatory". I figure it was something I said that might have been just a little out of line. As I get older it seems I do that a lot more often.

Here we are about to make open wheel history and they put us in back. Some people just don't appreciate great minds at work.

Honest Dad himself