[DAD]

Originally Posted by minisprintracing Dad, I couldn't have said it any better! Spending $2,500 or even $3,000 on a newer engine with a 1000 miles on it will cost a lot less then spending $1,500 on a older engine that has over 10,000 miles on it and then have to put bearings, rings, valve job and labor. My opinion is once you split the cases that engine will be a grenade waiting to explode! Just my 2 cents. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Don

I would assume that is right. Thanks: it's nice to get just a little support ever so often. We are all working toward the same goal>> I hope. Guys like you make it hard for me to convince some racers that it really isn't the motor. We do need a way to calm the ney sayers out there. I think I may have done it but it sure is a hard sell.

One thousand miles or less is better and a whole lot cheaper. There are a lot of unscrupulous people out there selling motors that needed to be parted out, but they patched them up to sell because we are in the middle of a motor shortage. Somebody needs to start addressing the problem.

Honest Dad himself

[Quantrill]

Mark You just might have a good idea. If I could come up with a good crew I might buy one of those groups. I would have to talk Doug into retiring, because as I have said to own a group and to race in it your self or have family racing is not a good idea. That does however sound kinda of neat. You on the other hand are already helping to run a group of racers and have your own website http://midwestlightningsprints.freeforums.org/ It appears to need a bit of work put into it. The readership and posts and responses seem to be a bit low. You should work on that a little more. Looked pretty good a few months ago, but things sometimes do fall off. Maybe you need to spend a little more time over there building it up.

Bill you mean our web site is like everyone else’s in the off season. Pretty much DOA?? Well thanks for noticing. So maybe if you spend less time on here flapping your gums trying to prove how smart you are the more time you would have to actually put new bearings in one of those motors you blew up playing with your dry sump. Which BTW cost more than a rebuild.

Personally I have an opinion on the direction the rules should go. But will agree with what everyone else agrees to.

But let’s try this on for size.

Everyone agrees after market cams are BAAAAAAD, Stock cams Goooooood! Why are aftermarket cams bad? Is it because we don’t like the manufacture?? NO,,,,, it’s because they have more lift and duration than stock cams. Why limit head milling?? Is it because we don’t like the way it looks?? Nope it is because it raises the compression of the motor. So now you expect clubs to allow motors in that have done what strait from the factory?? Put High lift cams and high compression ratio in? So now in order for the rest of the racers to compete you have to go buy the latest and greatest motor that Bill Jones bought. Kind of keeping up with the Jones’s so to speak. So 95% of the guys who race have just been told there motors are old go buy a new one if you want to win?? That makes since to me. Rather than pissing off the 05% of racers who don’t show up but what was it 4 times this year?? Maybe there is nothing to the new motors? I know if anyone cares to do the research you will see they are putting out some big dyno numbers. Plus if you look at the drawf car guys who are struggle with rules just as we are then you will see they DON’T allow any motor newer then a 2010. If it’s all hype why is that?

I was told a few weeks ago arguing with Bill Jones is kind of like the farmer trying to wrestling the pig out of the mud. The farmer finally gave up because he realized the pig was having too much fun!

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Quantrill Bill you mean our web site is like everyone else’s in the off season. Pretty much DOA?? Well thanks for noticing. So maybe if you spend less time on here flapping your gums trying to prove how smart you are the more time you would have to actually put new bearings in one of those motors you blew up playing with your dry sump. Which BTW cost more than a rebuild. Personally I have an opinion on the direction the rules should go. But will agree with what everyone else agrees to. But let’s try this on for size. Everyone agrees after market cams are BAAAAAAD, Stock cams Goooooood! Why are aftermarket cams bad? Is it because we don’t like the manufacture?? NO,,,,, it’s because they have more lift and duration than stock cams. Why limit head milling?? Is it because we don’t like the way it looks?? Nope it is because it raises the compression of the motor. So now you expect clubs to allow motors in that have done what strait from the factory?? Put High lift cams and high compression ratio in? So now in order for the rest of the racers to compete you have to go buy the latest and greatest motor that Bill Jones bought. Kind of keeping up with the Jones’s so to speak. So 95% of the guys who race have just been told there motors are old go buy a new one if you want to win?? That makes since to me. Rather than pissing off the 05% of racers who don’t show up but what was it 4 times this year?? Maybe there is nothing to the new motors? I know if anyone cares to do the research you will see they are putting out some big dyno numbers. Plus if you look at the drawf car guys who are struggle with rules just as we are then you will see they DON’T allow any motor newer then a 2010. If it’s all hype why is that? I was told a few weeks ago arguing with Bill Jones is kind of like the farmer trying to wrestling the pig out of the mud. The farmer finally gave up because he realized the pig was having too much fun!

Mark

I try to put forth information, and sometimes solutions. Most people given the information can come to their own conclusions. I haven't watched any of these new motors race yet, so I guess I will just have to take a leap of faith, and hope for the best. Is the only reason you win is because you race that zx10r that nobody else wants to race? I can't find any of those zx10r's in our pits. Do you think Don really needs a BMW to out run you?

I think You might perhaps like wrestling with pigs and arguing.

You and I could sure liven up that website of yours, don't you think.


Honest Dad himself

[Quantrill]

I think You might perhaps like wrestling with pigs and arguing. You and I could sure liven up that website of yours, don't you think.

OK Bill,,,, You got me on that one.

[RoyaltonMiniSprint]

This is starting to get interesting!!!

[DAD]

Originally Posted by RoyaltonMiniSprint This is starting to get interesting!!!

Roy

I am glad that you are interested in the topic. What do you think about the rules for the Tulsa Shootout? That just might have gotten a little off track and changed into we need a set of national rules.

You and Andy do have a lot to be concerned about with what is finally written down in the way of rules. It might be that you won't be able to go to some big race that might be too far away anyhow because you have one of them new fangled Engler injections. I do wish that would take Tim's name out of it and just specify no mechanical injection.

I ask myself WHY would Andy ride all the way across the state of Indiana just to talk about rules or might there been something else he might be lobbying for? Or does he just enjoy sitting in a room full of advisories and "wrestling with Pigs" to get his views across.

Back in olden times when I had red hair and I said "No Muff Too Tuff". we had meetings all the time. But now with a few more miles under my belt I prefer to let my fingers to the pounding instead of my tongue doing the wagging. At those meetings it was hard to get a point over because of all the smoke and raised voices and tempers. So they usually ended up with very little progress.

Back during the forming of our country many letter passed back and forth between our founding fathers. I like to think with IOW we are returning to our roots. Just think someday in the far off future somebody may find these rambling out there in cyber space and publish them as a book.

The Iow is a much better forum than a meeting room. We still scream and holler a lot, sometimes I forget and leave my caps lock on, but to my knowledge nobody has died or even been injured yet and since I gave up smoking I can't stand the smell of cigaret smoke.

We all are in agreement about what we want, BUT we might be going in opposite directions to achieve it. If I can I would like to get every body going in the same direction.

I have no qualms with Mechanical injection. Back when we started racing the motor rule was 600cc + 2MM overbore making a 639CC motor. everything else was legal. Very easy to tec BUT we did not have any tec tools either. We ran against some very expensive 600 cc motors back then with Race Pistons, Camshafts, oversize valves and springs removed gears etc in other words FULL RACE MOTORS. I learned many years later that one of them even used NOX. I bet that must have been the reason he blew up ever four or five races.

While talking with my mentor up in Indy he gave me a piece of advice. This is what he told me, "Let them spend them selves silly on their motors. You spend your money on chassis, suspension and tires." That advice has worked for me for many years now.

There used to be an old guy that ran one of these "FULL RACE" motors where we raced and I made it a point to stand next to him at the fence during the race and when Doug would get around his car I would poke him in the ribs and say "Not bad for an old stock 600 motor running on gas don't you think". He never seemed to get too excited about that fact.

Back then we had several very expensive motors to race against and we still had 25+ cars entered at almost all of our races. So money and expense might not be the best argument. By the way 20 cars guaranteed a $500.00 (probably $1000.00 in todays fiAT Money) to win, and best I can remember each car over 20 was + $20.00. Bill May can correct me on this if he wants, sometimes my thought get a little confused.

People new to the sport sometimes get concerned about what is good and what is bad. High dollar racing motors and their price tags "could" maybe scare some racers off, and we really don't need these motors anyhow.

If they, or for that matter you guys would just listen up a little bit, To an old over the hill fart who has raced with almost anything and everything under the sun. Motors would or could not scare you so much.

Right now I'm working on "Electric Wheel Chair Racing".

Mini Sprint racers would all enjoy the sport a whole lot more if this "ANAL Obsession" with motors could be kept under control.

The league I race in still allows for a guy on limited means to go out and race and to be able to beat people with a lot more money to invest in their hobby.

You can still race Mini-Sprints on the cheap if the Brain is engaged and you stick around long enough to get a little experience under your belt.

Honest Dad himself

[RoyaltonMiniSprint]

Dad

I just went back and read the Tulsa rules don't sound to bad to me. At least they will include us mechanical injection folks. Had nothing to do today so I went to the go kart races in the DuQuoin indoor center. Couldn't believe what them folks spend on enclosed trailers and such. One guy told me he had 10,000 dollars in an outlaw cage kart. Another guy in the outlaw class told me he had 3 motors 1 cost 3500 dollars who knows what the others cost. Had a nice 20ft. trailer he paid seven grand for. Also saw some 30 ft. trailers to. All of this just to race go karts. My point is we got people who are worried about the expense of the Engler mechanical fuel injection system. I say go to the go kart races then tell me our sport is too expensive

[luckybuc97]

Originally Posted by buckshot3448 yes i had a flyer somewhere, I believe they are making new flyers to hand out at tulsa. the guy that promotes the flat track races i believe is doing it. there will be wing and non wing 600's and the non wing lightning sprints

Is the DuQuoin race a sure thing? Where can we get more info?

Went to DuQuoin yesterday to check out the karts and flyers are up.
Showdown at the center
Feb. 14, 15, & 16
$2000.00 to win non wing lightning sprints
600cc Micros Wing & non wing
Al Archdale Jr. / Willard Bess Memorial
270-442-7532.

[Jim Gardner]

3 days? Is it a three day show or a complete show each day?

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Jim Gardner 3 days? Is it a three day show or a complete show each day?

Sooo>>>>> the purse is right who's rules? To racers with out much indoor experience I would recommend BATTLE BARS maybe several sets. That is one racy little joint but you are only allowed about 1/2 of a lane to pass in. You got to fight for the other half.

I would assume Illinois rules?? It would really be Super magnanimous if they would use "Tulsa Shoot Out" rules. so guys like Roy could race close to home.

Honest Dad himself