If anyone knows of an open seat for the BOSS show please PM me.

Not being a smart ass it is a serious question: Where is "around here" that an ecotec can be had for that price? Very curious? Thanks

Crankin

We call the place "PULL A PART". may go by a different where you live but the big deal in Junk Yards now days is turn the customer loose in your yard and hope they don't kill themselves.

If that motor ain't no good bring it back and take another one out, refunds in trade only.

Honest Dad himself

Well

UPS delivered me a head yesterday. My first $100.00 investment into my project. We took it up to AJ's last night, and after working on his hot tub a little got the dirty junk yard head on the flow bench for a preliminary test. I think the numbers kinda of surprised him a little, with dirty valve head and stock porting we got pretty close to the Esslinger numbers on his older heads.

Now we have to fabricate up some fixtures to mount it to the flow bench properly, take it apart and clean thing up a tad and see what turns up.

Honest Dad himself

One of the late model yards in Ohio.

Speaking as one of the “Old Guys” on this thread, there is one common theme I hope everyone realizes “Passion”. We all have a strong passion for this sport even though some of us are about at the end of our driving days (like me); some are pass it, some are tinkers-thinkers, and some are just starting out, one thing you need is ‘Passion”

Whether it’s the Montpelier group, headed by Harold, Brian and crew or the guys and gals that have made the effort to support it with their new/old midget/mini sprints, the Liguori’s, Greg, Jim, Dad, Ken Patrick, and the many others who have viewed this thread; they have shown their “Passion”. We want racing to survive whether we are directly involved or not.

What wasn’t cheaper back in the day? How many divisions of cars didn’t exist 25-30 years ago? Most cars were home built in there house garage. Get out the old cutting torch, buzz box, some of your closest friends, an old mid 30-40 coupe or sedan and you had the old hardtop or Jalopy division that at the time was the average man’s alternative to the very popular midgets.

Back when I was a kid Hardtops & Supers were King. You also had auto shop, metal shop, and machine shop classes in schools. Working on your street car at you house was a necessity. A lot of places these days your neighbors won’t tolerate you having welders, a set of cutting torches, or any machinery, let alone work on cars out of your garage…sad but true. I know it happened to us back in the mid-80’s in California. I used to build our stock cars from the ground up… till a neighbor complained to the city it was unbecoming to the neighborhood. Hello sprint cars and open wheel racing!

Most folks these days sadly don’t have the luxury or know how to build their own cars from the ground up. Whether we like it or not, we are now a plug and play society. Most folks that want to race are babes in the woods and with that comes some of the businesses that persuade them bigger is better, more cost is more speed, and 6 months later they are broke and out of racing. The sport dies a little more.

Ken, back when he was on the BCRA board out in California helped make a difference. Some older cars started showing up and car counts actually increased by 8-10 cars within 2 seasons. The mission then was to just get cars to the track just as Montpelier has. Sadly after Ken and another key board member left the BCRA board, the old self-serving group reappeared and Bay Cities midget have never been the same.

I see Johnny Murdock is starting a group called BAM (Budget American Midget) series, plus the IMRA (Illinois Midget Racing Association), both have rules more in line with what Dad has voiced here and Jim actually ran with the IMRA group as he has stated. These groups are really just getting stated on their rules package but who knows, within 5 years this could be the norm as far as local midget racing. The best thing is they are all welcomed at Montpelier.

Anyway when all’s said and done constructive dialog is always good for the sport especially when it’s done out of “Passion” Maybe some of us will be able to talk up at Montpelier soon. Hopefully the rest of us can get together maybe sometime during the off season.

Don O’Keefe Jr.
Midget 0k, 8ok

Ken, back when he was on the BCRA board out in California helped make a difference. Some older cars started showing up and car counts actually increased by 8-10 cars within 2 seasons. The mission then was to just get cars to the track just as Montpelier has. Sadly after Ken and another key board member left the BCRA board, the old self-serving group reappeared and Bay Cities midget have never been the same.

I see Johnny Murdock is starting a group called BAM (Budget American Midget) series, plus the IMRA (Illinois Midget Racing Association), both have rules more in line with what Dad has voiced here and Jim actually ran with the IMRA group as he has stated. These groups are really just getting stated on their rules package but who knows, within 5 years this could be the norm as far as local midget racing. The best thing is they are all welcomed at Montpelier.

Don O’Keefe Jr.


Don I used to be one of them non productive shop teachers, that were considered to be something like throw backs to the industrial revolution. The people in charge of educating our children considered the shop teacher obsolete. Sooo now when a light bulb burns out people have to call for a qualified electrician to change it for them. Dirty hands hands are considered not cool>>>so now my guys wear plastic gloves????

That first paragraph sure says a lot. Have you ever been associated with a group that was run by a bunch of self serving so and so's, that played ******** with one another to get their agenda approved by sacrificing someones else's wishes. If a racer is not in the "cliche:" he feels that his chances of success to be hopeless. I have seen this happen several times in my lifetime, with several very successful racing groups. Could this be a problem with Midget racing today???

Fortunately this will not happen at Montpelier. Why you ask? Well because Montpelier is controlled by a "Benevolent Dictator". This old dictator may talk with many of his subjects and listen to their concerns. He will then go back and make or not make rules as needed to keep the club prosperous, because it is important to him to have a prosperous organization (He likes to eat). He should not have any skin in the game in the form of racers, his only concern should be for the final product. The old back biting may still go on but as long as the dictator is in control and the racers don't perceive him as playing favorites he will succeed. He doesn't need to liked by all the racers nor does he need to be disliked by all the racers all he has to do is for all the racers to feel like that he is treating them all the same way.

The person that says a "DICTATOR" is a bad person has never been involved in racing. I can remember one promoter that would get on the drivers radio's and announce "You guys ain't at Burger King, and you ain't going to have it your way!!!" He was respected.

Honest Dad himself

Dad,...... DICTATOR......You have no idea how many times Don and I have broached that very subject. We all have seen many clubs that have fallen from grace because people put their own agenda ahead of the group. Bottom line is what's best for the group is what's best for me.......Every time!! There may be a decision that comes down that I am not happy with now and then but as long as it serves the group well, it's ok. Case in point: At the end of the 2002 season I plunked down 35K for two Edmunds/Esslinger Midgets. One Pavement and one Dirt, they were the '02 usac w/s championship cars. The season was a disaster. First race was a BCRA/usac Co-Sanction at Stockton March 29, 2003. While standing in line to go in ,the phone rang with the news that Mom had passed away during the night. We didn't race, going home with broken hearts. Parents, Pets, lovers and friends, life is full of loss...... Two weeks later on to Madera for another CoSanc. In the aftermath, I forgot to charge the Battery and made 1 lap in the 100 lapper. Two weeks later, on to Eureka and we were ready to go. I was leading the feature when a rookie I was lapping took me out, badly damaging the car. I went from a $1500 winner to a $4500 loser and it knocked me out of the sport. But BCRA was strong then and although I had to separate my equipment I got more than I paid for it, breaking even after repairs to the car. My time on the Board showed me that most racers thought process stops at their front bumper. This is why Montpelier will continue to grow. It is run by people who are looking out for the overall health of the groups. Good luck with your project and please keep us posted on your progress. Take Care.....Ken

Ken

I have also been associated with a few bad dictators in my lifetime. They are just about as bad or worse than many committee's. Everything we do is seen under someone else's perception. Rules can be seen as favoritism to a special party. I have raced under some very strange rules but when I looked at them I could see that the although they were stupid they affected everybody the same.

From your comments I can tell you have been around the block more than once. Young people are taught in grade school now days that rules and laws are the answer to every problem that exist in this old world. I went to college with a bunch of people that brought this way of thinking to the forefront. My advice to young people starting out is don't just make rules to be making rules. Slow down and ask your self what will so and so think about this, is it really needed, what is the real reason for this rule, it may not really be the stated reason.

I wish that race tracks would make rules today to prevent drivers from making their feelings known to other racers on the race track during a race. We call that 20/20 hind site.

I got a motor today and am going over to Tony's to see if he has a messed up motor plate to see if it fits and is light enough for him, who knows. The reason I posed this question on IOW was Montpelier is a pretty good haul and I didn't want to be perceived as trying to skirt the rules, and just maybe some other bright younger than me back yard racer might pick up on the Idea.

Here is the kicker>>>> as of last year because of the EPA Ford is phasing out these motors in favor of little turbocharged 4 cylinder motors with direct injection and a lot of boost. That means somebody is going to have to figure out how to close the throttle plate under all that boost at the end of the straightway. We will still have a half million or so of these V6's to play with.

Honest Dad himself

DAD, a lot of rules are just simply carried over, I can think of several, that have never been even looked at as to their meaning, or how they can be interpreted, just for example, the "no fuel additives" rule we've had pushed in our faces, this I'll have to say, a lot of organizations have added something to it, rather than left it to carry on, a lot have changed it to read, "upper lube permitted", but no power enhancers, and then they go on to list the most common ones. Upper lube is merely an additive to provide some lubricant to the valves and rings, and resist the corrosive nature of alcohol, in other words, to keep costs down, not to raise horse power, I think we all need to read the rules we run under, and take a look at what the bottom line meaning really is, besides, nitro has gotten so expensive, not many can even afford to ask "how much"! Bob