[Seadog]

Originally Posted by Rpracing1 Uhhhhhhhhh........Just slightly off topic.............Call each other if you want to exchange personal info................

I'd say calling me out for being OT is itself OT. If I am the only one that has ever done this, then I apologize for breaking the rules.:rolleyes:
I just asked Don a question. So sue me.:moon:

[Z-man]

You are asking about different series and two different cars all of which different teams/drivers. I don' know if that is a fair comparison. What you really want to talk about is whether the tire rule benefits anyone other then the organization that mandates it and the purple tire company.
I found this on the net don't know if this applies or not. "The Sherman Act also makes it a crime to monopolize any part of interstate commerce. An unlawful monopoly exists when only one firm controls the market for a product or service, and it has obtained that market power, not because its product or service is superior to others, but by suppressing competition with anticompetitive conduct."
If the purple tire money goes in to the purse does that help the idea of spending your money on the purple tire. Kinda like Lawrenceburg mandating Budweiser products at the track, just tears me up drinking an inferior product.

[turn4]

Thanks for asking the question Seadog.
Good luck in your racing Don.

[LEADERS EDGE]

From a fan stand point, I would think the things a fan cares about is a competitive show,a reasonable price, getting what I paid for at a usable facility.

For some reason, over the last few years of reading the board, you will see people complain that a show only had 28-35 cars. If it is a good show, what does it matter? To me,I think a show over 32 cars starts becoming hard to sit through because of the spins and crashes. As always, there are exceptions.

As far as the nuts and bolts of a show, you have to determine what the fans expect to see. If I am a fan and I come to a USAC show and I am expecting what are supposed to be the premire Midget Division, then I would expect cars that where fast, in cars that are on the cutting edge and drivers on the ragged edge. My point to that is, if I show up and the National Series was now a Focus type of program or the IRS Series, then I would personally be disappointed with the show because that is not what I would expect. Not saying those shows aren't good in their own right, but not when I expect the USAC National Midgets. I guess if I was new and didn't know any better, I would be excited until I saw a USAC type of race.

Now, If I am going to a Focus Race or a T.Q. Race, I know what I am expecting to see and will be pleased when I see it. Even the All Star Sprints aren't the WoO. Even though they put on a great show.

As a fan, I really don't care about the particular Chassis,Motors,Tires,Rules etc... I want to see the show I paid for and,(To me this is the most important thing missing today)I want to see my favorite driver win. The reason I say this is missing is because I don't think many of todays fans really have much of a connection with the drivers. Only a small handfull get any type of applause(or even a round of Boos would be nice to hear) when the drivers are announced. You can be successful if you are loved and you can be successful when you are hated, but when no one cares you know your in trouble.

As far as being watered down; I agree for the most part. Too many choices and too many people who would have only been fans in the past are now racing in some sort of division. People who at one time did not feel safe to race, now are racing every weekend. Between themselves and their families, that may be 3-5 fans a week doing their own thing. That is great for parts companies, but not good for promotors and racers wanting to raise the purse.

That is why the Chili Bowl is so successful from a fan stand point. Many of these people who would be racing normally, have that week off from racing and come to see the happening. Some also rent cars and participate and that is why the car counts are up so much.

Me personally, I hate the Hoosier rule, but I like today's midget. I'm not going to go on as to why, but I think the sport is very competitive today and I think in many ways it is easier to go race.

As far as it being too expensive to compete, many of the people complaining that midget racing needs to be cheaper feel that Govt. bailouts are a joke and they shouldn't pay for others healthcare. Kind of depends on where on the sliding scale you fall. I see a guy running Micros complaining he can't run a midget(No offense, just an example) and I think, "Well it's better than the guy watching and wanting to be you."

As far as the $10,000 V.W. Motors being the hey day of midget racing, I remember when those motors came out and people where up in arms and said the sport was over. There is no way it could survive with those costs. Today I know of many people buying great,competitive used motors for $10,000. Motors that could win shows in Powri, Badger and even USAC.(With the right driver)

Midget racing has always been this way(I realized I just said "This is how it's always been") In the 70's and early '80's you had Offy only clubs,Sesco Chevy II clubs, 126ci VW only clubs, 133ci only VW only clubs and so on. Midget Racing has always had many factions. Kind of the nature of the people involved.

I am not saying it's easy, I'm not saying there aren't many other ways to go about it and I am not saying that it can't be better, but for those who want to do it and those who want to watch it you had better do it today, because tommorrow is never promised.

[Seadog]

Excellent post LEADERS EDGE. I think you are calling this one right.:thumb

[DonMoore10]

Going back to my original question: I am interested in understanding the quality of the experience of watching racing, in this case, midget racing. Forget about the driver/engine/chassis etc.

Let me give an example. Let's say we are sitting in the stands at Sun Prairie for a dual show: Badger midgets and IRS sportsman midgets. Let's assume that we don't know any of the drivers or anything about the cars. Now, a race fan has a certain experience when they are watching the racing. What turns you on or off, so to speak, in the racing experience that would cause you to say after a race has been completed that you either liked it or disliked it. For example, you may say... wow.. that was a good race.. car 25 came all the way from the back to win the race! Or... you might say.. That was a terrible race with no passing and it was boring.

Now the next step. Let's assume it was a great race. Do you as a fan say... wow... those tires really worked great for that racer! Or... that Spike chassis caused that driver to put on a good race! Is that what you are thinking after a good race?

Now, from what I am hearing, the IRS midgets at Sun Prairie put on a great show and the fans like them and they are racing with a different set of rules than the Badger midgets. Does that have anything to do with the fans racing experience???

Now, what I'm trying to determine is: Does the chassis, tires, engine or any other midget part have anything to do with you having a great racing experience???

[Z-man]

It does if someone comes in with a different tire/engine/chasis and kicks everyone elses ass. As a fan in the stands we may not even Know what tire/engine/chasis they were running. Well the tire has its name on the sidewall. That tire wall, especially on the right rear, right before the drivers goes into turn 1 from the grandstand, you can distinctly see the tire manufacturers name in bright white letters. It usually says Hoosier.

[DonMoore10]

Let me pose the question in another way:

What do the owners and drivers need to present to the audience (race fans) for them to have a successful racing experience (not talking about concessions or facilities)? By experience I mean a desire to come back again.

Does it make any difference to you regarding what kind of wheels I have on the car?

Does it make any difference to you regarding the brand of fuel or oil that I use?

Does it make any difference to you regarding what chassis I'm using?

[AERO410SCJA]

None of that matters to me as long as they are outside on dirt.I would drive the 4plus hours to "THE PRAIRE" instead of the half hour to ft.wayne for a rumble race.

I know your not a big fan of ARDC DON :doh:But they are growing by leaps and bounds:applaud:while trying to keep midget racing affordable:cheers

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 Let me pose the question in another way: What do the owners and drivers need to present to the audience (race fans) for them to have a successful racing experience (not talking about concessions or facilities)? By experience I mean a desire to come back again. Does it make any difference to you regarding what kind of wheels I have on the car? Does it make any difference to you regarding the brand of fuel or oil that I use? Does it make any difference to you regarding what chassis I'm using?

Q: Does it make any difference to you regarding what kind of wheels I have on the car?
A: No

Q: Does it make any difference to you regarding the brand of fuel or oil that I use?
A: No

Q: Does it make any difference to you regarding what chassis I'm using?
A: No

The average fan is more driver oriented than anything - except maybe a Nascar fan that thinks if you don't drive a Chevy, you're useless. A midget fan roots for the driver, not the car. He doesn't care what his favorite driver is driving.

I also think that it depends on how knowledgeable the race fan is - for example - Let's say a guy wins a race on dirt with an old Beast chassis and beats a guy with a brand new Spike chassis - that would be noteworthy and it would make it more interesting and exciting. To a casual fan not as well informed that wouldn't know a Beast chassis from a bus chassis, he may say "so what?"