Kevin Miller on Windtunnel tonight

LEADERS EDGE · 6/30/08, 11:07 AM

There is so much here that can be disected and discussed, but none of it matters.

The bottom line is, if you cannot afford to run USAC and you own a midget then run Powri. If you own a dirt sprinter, then run the local deal. If you can afford it, then race with them. If you can't;race somewhere else. If their business model is wrong, then they will fail or have to change courses. If it is right for them they will survive and thrive.

All of us(Me included) want USAC to meet OUR personal goals. Thing is, the powers that be have THEIR own goals and they are not the same.

In their mind, it is easier to work with a select few that spend more money and have the funding available to compete than it is to build a program that relies on the support of people who constantly have funding issues and need cash flow.

I see it becoming simlilar to SCCA with different divisions and the alike, but the teams don't make any money from the racing. They are paid by development programs or funded drivers and that is how they make their money.

Is it something that I like, not really; but there are alternatives available. Why does everyone feel like it is necessary to be validated by running a USAC show?

In my lifetime I have went from a USAC honk(avid supporter), to being very critical of them to today in which I am basically neutual. If I had the money to race with them I would. Since I don't, what does it matter to me? If they lowered the costs of everything across the board, I still couldn't afford the travel costs and there is very little they can do about that.

Trying to get USAC to change to suit my beliefs and goals is like trying to change that one family member or friend that has what you feel is a personality or substance abuse problem. You want them to change because it makes YOU feel better because they become what YOU want, but if THEY don't want to change then it doesn't matter. All you can do is say your peace and move on.

Is USAC going a direction I agree with? No. They don't realize that the show is the drivers. Not the cars and sanctioning body. The key to any successful entertainment venture is the PERSONALITY of the performers coming through in their performance. It's not the car or company they represent.

By the way: Everyone complains about the cost of midget racing. Is it crazy? Sure! It has been for a long time though. Guys like Howard Linne and the Caruthers spent over 100,000 a year when the average household income was probably $8-10,000 a year. That is just how it is. Instead of worrying about how to control someone elses spending, people should worry about how to maximize the money they spend and most of all: HAVE FUN DOING IT. If our biggest problems in life are $5.00 gas and expensive racecars, then we have it pretty good.

DonMoore10 · 6/30/08, 11:31 AM

Last time I looked, POWRi, Badger and everybody else in the country are using the same USAC rule book except SMRS (no tire or engine rule) and ARDC (no new Esslingers or Fontanas). :crying:

LEADERS EDGE · 6/30/08, 11:54 AM

What does it matter what the rule books say? If you think that racing is expensive today; let them open the midget rules up and really see some development. So many people have this thing where they think that if the motors where just bigger then they wouldn't be expensive because they wouldn't need development. 2 Cam motors, V-6 motors and other 4 cam motors would be the standard and if they would allow electronic fuel injection then that opens up a whole new world of "black magic".

Personally; I think they have struck a balance of sorts and while it's not the cheapest, it still isn't horrible. You have the choice of about 10 or so combinations and they are at varying costs from $8,000 used-$45,000 new. On several nights the $45,000 motors are getting beat by the $8,000-$12,000 group and the motor that costs around $30,000 new (Esslinger) is the one that is the standard right now.

From my experience, I can't stand running spec style series'. You are so limited as to what you can do and you are at the mercy of the tech "gods" to keep everything equal. Any person who has run kart's and QM can attest to that.

Don, you have one of the neatest programs out there. You are in several ways a model for the "little guy". At any track you show up at, your team is one of the ones to beat. Even if you had Stewart and Kasey money, you wouldn't choose to race much different than you do today.

If the cars themselves were cheaper, they still wouldn't have that many more competitors then they do today. Many guys still wouldn't travel 400 miles one way to race because of energy costs. USAC has to have races in different areas though because that is where the tracks that want to race them are at and it's a chance to expose the product to different fans.

6/30/08, 2:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester

I know it will take time to change USAC but its been a year? Whats changed? Name one thing.
Cost is about it.

Chuck, not bashing anything but if they are promoting, wheres the comercial in the Nascar or Indy race??? Adds in papers for upcoming venues. hell I haven't even seen a working website for most of the past year.

Chuck, are you going by the Mayan calendar? Miller took over on December 1. According to my count, thats coming up on 7 months. Not to mention sponsorship won't even be announced until the end of this year. You want TV commercials? Are you going to pay the 5 figure sum it takes for ONE commercial because USAC surely still doesn't have the money.

You're a perfect example of the "fan" USAC needs to forget. You should stick to Lawrenceburg.

stephen · 6/30/08, 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAC Fan

Chuck, are you going by the Mayan calendar? Miller took over on December 1. According to my count, thats coming up on 7 months. Not to mention sponsorship won't even be announced until the end of this year. You want TV commercials? Are you going to pay the 5 figure sum it takes for ONE commercial because USAC surely still doesn't have the money.

You're a perfect example of the "fan" USAC needs to forget. You should stick to Lawrenceburg.

Oh yea, that's a good attitude to have, forget the fans who made you, we want the trendy fans who will be on to another fad three years from now, ala NASCAR. I'm not defending Chuck, but this attitude these days just burns my a$$. If USAC has this same attitude then they are not as smart as they have been given credit for. One other thing, Emmet Hahn has saved sprint car racing in a big portion of this country for the small-buck racer, that I know for a fact.

6/30/08, 4:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephen

One other thing, Emmet Hahn has saved sprint car racing in a big portion of this country for the small-buck racer, that I know for a fact.

:rolling:rolling:rolling:rolling:rolling:rolling:r olling:rolling:rolling

Where's Scott Baue and his BLIND AFFECTION for this one???????

Charles Nungester · 6/30/08, 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAC Fan

Chuck, are you going by the Mayan calendar? Miller took over on December 1. According to my count, thats coming up on 7 months. Not to mention sponsorship won't even be announced until the end of this year. You want TV commercials? Are you going to pay the 5 figure sum it takes for ONE commercial because USAC surely still doesn't have the money.

You're a perfect example of the "fan" USAC needs to forget. You should stick to Lawrenceburg.

But USAC has no problem driving ten cars and a six figure big rig to the track.

As for forgeting someone, Your easlily forgettable Mr. No name

stephen · 6/30/08, 4:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAC Fan

:rolling:rolling:rolling:rolling:rolling:rolling:r olling:rolling:rolling

Where's Scott Baue and his BLIND AFFECTION for this one???????

Do YOU own a sprint car, do YOU pay for engine refreshning, do YOU put together a budget to operate on Mr.NONAME? Yea, I didn't think so. Emmett must have beat you up and made you look stupid to justify the hard on you have for him.

Charles Nungester · 6/30/08, 4:39 PM

I think everyone seems to forget what caused all this to begin with. It's just not one thing and USAC IMHO put itself in the possition its in.

How many millions went into a program that barely got off the ground? *New Champ* How many drivers left for greener pastures? One reason Dave Darland is so well liked and known is because he's been there done that and continues to be competitive and in general set a good example. Same for Staab, Elliott and a few others.

Others have different reasons for wanting to see a USAC show, Mine is to see drivers I know and Locals compete against the best in the nation but lately it's like Baseball, Who's Randy Johnson gonna play for this year? If he ain't on my team (Another sanction) Why should I follow him?

Im all for these young guys going for gold, Said it from the start that if they can wheel a sprinter, Do it cleanly and with respect. They got every right to be there no matter what their age. I do wish USAC however was a series that if they didn't make *The next level* They could be happy with USAC, Make a living at it. And if they did make the next level and didn't succeed, They'd be happy to come back to it.

I love the fact that BC and TS and JJ will still strap it on when they can. Why? Because this is what they love, Thats where the money is. I also love them giving back to the sport but I also see it having drasticly having a negative impact on the ability of local or even somewhat well funded teams to compete against. Come on, A 1000hp Chevy motor? What will that run, 90 grand?

Things could work and work well. The mixing Schedules and stuff don't work, never have, never will your dilluting the fan base when midgets race in wisconson and sprints race in Indiana on the same night. Your also dilluting the driver pool.

Make the sprint season 6-8 weeks Each week in a different area of the nation and maybe Two to three of them pavement. The midget season 4-6 weeks Same formats and the Champ season 2-4 weeks. Gold cup could be one race a month not mixed with the others.

USAC also needs to run the shows it scheduals and have rain dates available. Why should I travel on a iffy forcast? As someone else posted, Traveling and those expenses are usually much more than the actual race, No matter what the gate fee is.

How you do it is Kevin and his staffs job. But only then do I see USAC as events, More than just your local show with a couple more top names. Only then do I see 7-30000 fan counts and the higher purses everybody wants.

The USAC PR should be tell your friends about us, Bring a friend, Bring your family not just facebook and the net where you actually have to look to find USAC. You have to get your name out there visually with a connection to what people will expect to see.

There should be a line of tracks wanting a USAC show but only some actually able to do so, There should be a line of competitors wanting to compete with and against them and a format that makes it equally possible to do so. Not all teams could or would be able to do All the weeks but seeing them for two or three of them would be bonuses to any of them. Not all fans will be able to make much more than a third of them but it would be something they could plan for and want to do. Some of this is there already, some of it needs serious work. PA, Sprintweek. The California Nationals in the late fall. Expand the four crown to three or four tracks and make that the Ohio Cup

I wish Kevin, USAC and it's competitors all the best but as a fan, These are some of the problems with it as it stands.

And USACfan. I don't expect a magic wand. I noticed after my post last night that USAC now has a nice website up. He announced that comming three months ago.

I don't think a few low fan turnouts bankrupted USAC. USAC did that to themselves.

Non of this is a bash on USAC or Kevin and some of it might sound negative. It's not meant to be and certainly my ideas may not be the answer but some of them could help
Chuck

sprntr · 6/30/08, 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USAC Fan

He didn't rebuild Mopar Racing by being a lucky idiot.

If he is such a genius, why did Mopar let him get away?

6/30/08, 4:39 PM	#49 Re: Kevin Miller on Windtunnel tonight
Charles Nungester Senior Member Race Count This Year: 6 Race Count Last Year: 14 Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 22,035	I think everyone seems to forget what caused all this to begin with. It's just not one thing and USAC IMHO put itself in the possition its in. How many millions went into a program that barely got off the ground? New Champ How many drivers left for greener pastures? One reason Dave Darland is so well liked and known is because he's been there done that and continues to be competitive and in general set a good example. Same for Staab, Elliott and a few others. Others have different reasons for wanting to see a USAC show, Mine is to see drivers I know and Locals compete against the best in the nation but lately it's like Baseball, Who's Randy Johnson gonna play for this year? If he ain't on my team (Another sanction) Why should I follow him? Im all for these young guys going for gold, Said it from the start that if they can wheel a sprinter, Do it cleanly and with respect. They got every right to be there no matter what their age. I do wish USAC however was a series that if they didn't make The next level They could be happy with USAC, Make a living at it. And if they did make the next level and didn't succeed, They'd be happy to come back to it. I love the fact that BC and TS and JJ will still strap it on when they can. Why? Because this is what they love, Thats where the money is. I also love them giving back to the sport but I also see it having drasticly having a negative impact on the ability of local or even somewhat well funded teams to compete against. Come on, A 1000hp Chevy motor? What will that run, 90 grand? Things could work and work well. The mixing Schedules and stuff don't work, never have, never will your dilluting the fan base when midgets race in wisconson and sprints race in Indiana on the same night. Your also dilluting the driver pool. Make the sprint season 6-8 weeks Each week in a different area of the nation and maybe Two to three of them pavement. The midget season 4-6 weeks Same formats and the Champ season 2-4 weeks. Gold cup could be one race a month not mixed with the others. USAC also needs to run the shows it scheduals and have rain dates available. Why should I travel on a iffy forcast? As someone else posted, Traveling and those expenses are usually much more than the actual race, No matter what the gate fee is. How you do it is Kevin and his staffs job. But only then do I see USAC as events, More than just your local show with a couple more top names. Only then do I see 7-30000 fan counts and the higher purses everybody wants. The USAC PR should be tell your friends about us, Bring a friend, Bring your family not just facebook and the net where you actually have to look to find USAC. You have to get your name out there visually with a connection to what people will expect to see. There should be a line of tracks wanting a USAC show but only some actually able to do so, There should be a line of competitors wanting to compete with and against them and a format that makes it equally possible to do so. Not all teams could or would be able to do All the weeks but seeing them for two or three of them would be bonuses to any of them. Not all fans will be able to make much more than a third of them but it would be something they could plan for and want to do. Some of this is there already, some of it needs serious work. PA, Sprintweek. The California Nationals in the late fall. Expand the four crown to three or four tracks and make that the Ohio Cup I wish Kevin, USAC and it's competitors all the best but as a fan, These are some of the problems with it as it stands. And USACfan. I don't expect a magic wand. I noticed after my post last night that USAC now has a nice website up. He announced that comming three months ago. I don't think a few low fan turnouts bankrupted USAC. USAC did that to themselves. Non of this is a bash on USAC or Kevin and some of it might sound negative. It's not meant to be and certainly my ideas may not be the answer but some of them could help Chuck __________________ Charles Nungester

6/30/08, 11:07 AM	#41 Re: Kevin Miller on Windtunnel tonight
LEADERS EDGE Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 980	There is so much here that can be disected and discussed, but none of it matters. The bottom line is, if you cannot afford to run USAC and you own a midget then run Powri. If you own a dirt sprinter, then run the local deal. If you can afford it, then race with them. If you can't;race somewhere else. If their business model is wrong, then they will fail or have to change courses. If it is right for them they will survive and thrive. All of us(Me included) want USAC to meet OUR personal goals. Thing is, the powers that be have THEIR own goals and they are not the same. In their mind, it is easier to work with a select few that spend more money and have the funding available to compete than it is to build a program that relies on the support of people who constantly have funding issues and need cash flow. I see it becoming simlilar to SCCA with different divisions and the alike, but the teams don't make any money from the racing. They are paid by development programs or funded drivers and that is how they make their money. Is it something that I like, not really; but there are alternatives available. Why does everyone feel like it is necessary to be validated by running a USAC show? In my lifetime I have went from a USAC honk(avid supporter), to being very critical of them to today in which I am basically neutual. If I had the money to race with them I would. Since I don't, what does it matter to me? If they lowered the costs of everything across the board, I still couldn't afford the travel costs and there is very little they can do about that. Trying to get USAC to change to suit my beliefs and goals is like trying to change that one family member or friend that has what you feel is a personality or substance abuse problem. You want them to change because it makes YOU feel better because they become what YOU want, but if THEY don't want to change then it doesn't matter. All you can do is say your peace and move on. Is USAC going a direction I agree with? No. They don't realize that the show is the drivers. Not the cars and sanctioning body. The key to any successful entertainment venture is the PERSONALITY of the performers coming through in their performance. It's not the car or company they represent. By the way: Everyone complains about the cost of midget racing. Is it crazy? Sure! It has been for a long time though. Guys like Howard Linne and the Caruthers spent over 100,000 a year when the average household income was probably $8-10,000 a year. That is just how it is. Instead of worrying about how to control someone elses spending, people should worry about how to maximize the money they spend and most of all: HAVE FUN DOING IT. If our biggest problems in life are $5.00 gas and expensive racecars, then we have it pretty good.

6/30/08, 11:31 AM	#42 Re: Kevin Miller on Windtunnel tonight
DonMoore10 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,474	Last time I looked, POWRi, Badger and everybody else in the country are using the same USAC rule book except SMRS (no tire or engine rule) and ARDC (no new Esslingers or Fontanas). :crying:

6/30/08, 11:54 AM	#43 Re: Kevin Miller on Windtunnel tonight
LEADERS EDGE Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 980	What does it matter what the rule books say? If you think that racing is expensive today; let them open the midget rules up and really see some development. So many people have this thing where they think that if the motors where just bigger then they wouldn't be expensive because they wouldn't need development. 2 Cam motors, V-6 motors and other 4 cam motors would be the standard and if they would allow electronic fuel injection then that opens up a whole new world of "black magic". Personally; I think they have struck a balance of sorts and while it's not the cheapest, it still isn't horrible. You have the choice of about 10 or so combinations and they are at varying costs from $8,000 used-$45,000 new. On several nights the $45,000 motors are getting beat by the $8,000-$12,000 group and the motor that costs around $30,000 new (Esslinger) is the one that is the standard right now. From my experience, I can't stand running spec style series'. You are so limited as to what you can do and you are at the mercy of the tech "gods" to keep everything equal. Any person who has run kart's and QM can attest to that. Don, you have one of the neatest programs out there. You are in several ways a model for the "little guy". At any track you show up at, your team is one of the ones to beat. Even if you had Stewart and Kasey money, you wouldn't choose to race much different than you do today. If the cars themselves were cheaper, they still wouldn't have that many more competitors then they do today. Many guys still wouldn't travel 400 miles one way to race because of energy costs. USAC has to have races in different areas though because that is where the tracks that want to race them are at and it's a chance to expose the product to different fans.