I'll be the first to admitt I have no idea what Im talking about. I do know that midget racing in SE IND, Ohio used to be several times a year at most tracks (Mid Eighties) and before that in the 70s almost every week at several tracks.

Some of its got to do with organizations folding or what not but from the two owners I knew locally. They got out purely on cost reasons. Now a few tracks have regional midgets and some tracks have midget week and thats about it.

Sad as I remember the days where a driver would jump out of the sprint, Run over to the midget and be out in the next race

Chuck, just wanting to see some more midget racing I don't have to travel 600 miles to Wisconsin or Minn to get too.

As a fan... Is the racing any better today after these guys throw $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at it? Would you be able to tell the difference (or would it make any difference to you) if the entire field turned laps a second or so slower?

To be honest? It seems there are more competitive cars today than in the past and it is exciting seeing rooster tails and wheelstand now. Then again I remember Vogler and some others beating the sprints in qualifying times in the 80s in a midget. That being said, most of the shows I seen were not National level so that more competitive teams statement might be unfounded.

I really don't care as long as its competitive midget racing. If a compression rule would even the field a bit and a tire rule such as same as you qualified on or skinnier tire and wheel..

Everybody says, Well run a lower class. Those owners I quoted loved Midgets, wanted to run midgets and would rather not race than non run them. They said that the price of a motor today was more than two complete cars in 1985 when they started. They could no longer justify fielding them for both cost and lack of local racing of the class so they sold off.

I don't think anyone dissagrees that something needs done. Question is, Who is willing to stick together to do it? Like others have said, some have the 45g motors and when their banned, what happens?

Chuck, just wanting to see good side by side, slide em in OPEN WHEEL RACING.

Based on fan feedback regarding all types of open wheel racing that I've read on here over the years. It seems that the fan has had a satisfying evening at the track when the following happen:

1. Lots of cars show up ( not a lot of classes)

2. They witness close competitive racing

3. The show moves along quicky and is completed by a reasonable hour

One of the problems you have today with midgets is that you have so many Sprint Cars that a track does not have to have midgets come in for a night or a as a support class. They are not going to pay the midgets what they pay the sprints.

While production engines have changed in the last 10 years, one of the big reasons that they wanted to get away from steel blocks is because when they where broken, they where pretty much useless.

20 plus years ago I would sit and listen to my dads buddies who where all what would be called "Old Timers". They all complained about how much racing cost and how it had changed and it wasn't as good as it was before. The awful amounts of money being spent on the VW motors($10,000) and the wide tires where killing the sport. I too would go around saying those things and thinking that the midgets where on the verge of extinction and we needed to save them.

Flash forward to today and it's still the same topics. The entire sport has gone up and down some since then, but there is still plenty of midget racing going on and in many ways the sport has gotten easier and cheaper. Personally, I think that the 8" wheel deal and all of that is pie in the sky dreams as far as making older cars more competitive or evening up the playing field. Right now, you can use a '94 Stealth and a 2000 or newer motor and race well enough to win or run in the top 5 in any dirt midget club in the country, including USAC. Granted,depending on the track in some cases, but that is possible. Eventually though,the best teams will always come to the top. I'd be fine with ribs and Double Diamonds, but the best will rise to the top.

Personally, I don't know what the amount of cars where then(60's,70's,80's) they did get bigger car counts the Hut and T-Nite, but is that because there where more cars or was it because the racers where more willing to travel?

I would say that there are more midgets today than anytime except for the 50's, but they do race less. I feel that some of that is due to the Chili Bowl only owners and some of that is because sprinters are the flavor today and have always been a somewhat easier type of car to race. In days gone by, people where fools to tempt the fate of the Sprint Car gods and midgets where thought of as safer, but today many don't even think that sprinters are dangerous.

One thing for sure, the quality of cars and equipment at every level and class have never been better.

As far as a second or two a lap goes, you will often lose that in a nights racing anyway. As far as what the fan wants to see, that often changes. I don't know about anyone else, but I can sure tell the difference between a T.Q.,Kenyon Car Focus or IRS race and a standard midget race. Not saying that I haven't seen good races in all of those classes, but the difference is pretty obvious.

The IRS is a good idea and it fits much of what people are saying they want. Why would you want USAC to change and resemble IRS when the IRS already exists. Instead of wanting USAC to change, change where you race or adopt their ideas and start a series.

If USAC is to be critisized and hung in the county square for changing the Silver Crown Series because they sold the owners out, how can we then say it's alright to completely change the midget series in much the same way hanging out most of the current owners? Not only selling out owners who competed at over 90 percent of their events, but doing so to make another group of owners happy who readily admit that they will not or can not compete at all of their events.

I think the midget racing I saw this year was as good as any I've ever seen.

I don't think the problem is so much the expense of cars or whatever as just a lack of series to race with. POWRi is as good as ever. Badger is down (but for what reason I'm not sure...?). A big problem was when NAMARS folded...and that obviously wasn't because of a lack of competitors or fans, right? I really think that put a big hit on the pavement side of midget racing, and it took away a great place for guys to race that wasn't the "USAC National Championship."

Could something like that come back to life?

Thats it, Namars folded and since then we've had next to nil midget racing. Many of them teams don't even exist anymore.

Leaders Edge says... Its about the same to run a sprint car so, why not? and you have a ton more options. I can see that. too.

I've been both dissapointed and very pleased at recent midget shows. Mulit consis ect are not needed to make a good show but some competiton just to make the show is a factor in what makes a race better or worth traveling too. .

I mentioned several times the 305 limited nw sprints I seen about ten years ago and to me, they were as exciting as the full ups. Except for Qualifying, the amount of speed really doesn't matter unless its crawling slow like some of the dry slicks I've seen.

Best of luck
Chuck

Double Post

I will say this one last thing; I honestly do not have a problem with change in the sport and I do believe that on some level there may be some alternatives to the motors we run today. I do not however believe we need a sealed motor or a central engine czar. Whatever that alternative may be still needs to be based on a platform that allows it to be easily doable for all involved and it needs some diversity because the midgets have always appealed to people who do not necessarly conform to what everyone else is doing. Today we have many different choices when it comes to engines. I would hate to see that go away.

As far as the competition level goes, I personally do not believe that it has ever been higher as far as quality or quantity. Across the country. There are reasons for that and it's not just big pocket books.

Jason, all of the clubs did basically band together and they broke USAC and the starter rule. Guys like me who had them where not allowed to use them at any other event besides USAC. To me, that was rediculious to not allow a starter/clutch unit, but that is what happened and now they are gone. Maybe if everyone who says they want rules like what IRS offers would go and run with them, then USAC may have to change their rules to match.

I don't think myself or anyone else suggested rules like IRS. I think IRS is doing an excellent job at accomplishing what they want. I wish them success.

I stated a production block rule. You could get a stock block have it machined with a nice forged crank, nice rods, and good pistons for thousand less than a today's racing short block. A lot of production blocks are aluminum and could be repaired. If not throw it out and go get another from the bone yard. You watch. IF Honda is let in the door they are going to be extremely competitive with stock production parts. Midget engines were always interesting because they were all different. Like drakes, v8 60's, elto's, even continentals. That was part of it. Now what do you have? A hand full of specialty built race motors. Real interesting there.

As far as the 8" rule. That would make a huge difference. I don't care what compound tire you have. The motors would be way less effective. Period.

These are just my opinions. I think it's time for change. I don't want to see anyone get hung out on what they have but some stuff should start getting filtered out.

Oh and I can tell ya this. My uncle bought a brand new VW in the 80's for $3500. By the time it was in the car it was close to $5000. The motor had 38 races on it before it had to come out of the car. How many motor today can go 38 races?

Jason