[Revolution Racing]

Yes, there are LOTS of problems with the GC/SC formula. Most of the problems, to my knowlege, have not even been fully addressed yet (fan appeal, who they will run with, how they will get a purse, who the buyers will be...)

But there are also a lot of things being done right, I think. It seems as if some important lessons have (finally) been learned.

We are starting with a design that - at least - can't be called some of the things the original design was. Some of those concepts were pretty darn cool. So thats step one. I say we give this project a chance.

And how about a new generation engine to go with the new genration body? Just sayin'....

[DonRacer]

I would pay to watch them run at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

[Lucky161]

Originally Posted by Revolution Racing Yes, there are LOTS of problems with the GC/SC formula. Most of the problems, to my knowlege, have not even been fully addressed yet (fan appeal, who they will run with, how they will get a purse, who the buyers will be...) But there are also a lot of things being done right, I think. It seems as if some important lessons have (finally) been learned. We are starting with a design that - at least - can't be called some of the things the original design was. Some of those concepts were pretty darn cool. So thats step one. I say we give this project a chance. And how about a new generation engine to go with the new genration body? Just sayin'....

Bring 30+ to TMS twice a year and I'll be there both times with friends. Bring even 20+ and some hope that the series is growing and I'll be there. But a pathetic 20 or less and shrinking field like the IRL has been putting out lately and I'll pass.

Originally Posted by IBRACN Wasn't this already tried a couple of years ago. They look just like the Silver Crown cars that USAC tried running on the NASCAR tracks....I don't see any differences. They were boring then and look about the same now. I just don't understand it.

It's basicly putting lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.

[D.O.]

Bruce is setting up his own series for the cars. I would bet that many of the old NASCAR engines end up here. Remember new Toyota's, New Fords, new Dodges and Chevy for the cup series where does all the old engines go? 360 western state sprints?, Gold crown and everywhere.

This car will be on display at the Indy show with a chevy engine from Earnhardt/Ganassi.

Only at this moment IOW is the only place the latest picture of this project are. Thanks to Bruce Ashmore for the first look.

If NASCAR which right now is the number one sanctioning body in this country has taken a pass on basically the same thing what makes you think they or anyone else will want it? The cars are not attractive, the racing before was poor at best, there was little to no crowds and almost zero fan support and base. PLUS now you're going to run them on road courses which should NEVER happen, should be an oval track only series. I'm all for growing and supporting the Champ Cars but this THING in not a champ car anymore than those things CART/etc tried to pass off as one. A pig is till a pig, a joke it still a joke and this thing is both, and this from someone who saw his first USAC dirt champ race in 1969, if your longtime fan base and car owners don't embrace it at least at a 90% level it won't work and right now I doubt you're close to 50% support. Change is one thing, to totally and completely alter the concept and history to unrecognizable is another......

---------- Post added at 05:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ----------

Originally Posted by D.O. Bruce is setting up his own series for the cars. I would bet that many of the old NASCAR engines end up here. Remember new Toyota's, New Fords, new Dodges and Chevy for the cup series where does all the old engines go? 360 western state sprints?, Gold crown and everywhere. This car will be on display at the Indy show with a chevy engine from Earnhardt/Ganassi. Only at this moment IOW is the only place the latest picture of this project are. Thanks to Bruce Ashmore for the first look.

Old engines go to lower funded teams, ARCA, Nationwide, Trucks. And some teams, builders, TRD etc. are VERY picky about who gets their engines/secrets and several do not sell motors to just anyone and a large amount DO NOT sell motors at all...... PLUS who believes that most car owners are going to pay for a used engine (500 miles anyone) over a new fresh engine.......

[Lucky161]

Originally Posted by D.O. Russ that's a great comment except USAC doesn't own this series or make the rules. This complete deal has been taken over by Bruce Ashmore who redesigned the car and is building this first car with the new body. Ashmore for those who don't know has worked for Lola, Reynard, as the desigener of their sports cars and Indy 500 winning cars. Bruce Ashmore (born c. 1959 in Cambridge, England) is a race car designer who designed and developed 11 championship winning IndyCars with two different race car manufacturers, first with Lola Cars and then with Reynard Motorsports. After graduating from Cambridge Technical University he started working for Lola Cars in Huntingdon, England. During his seventeen years with Lola he worked his way up from intern to chief designer. Bruce was a member of the design team for many race car projects and was the chief designer on the T8800, T8900, T9000, T9100, & T9200 Lola IndyCars. Then, in 1993 Ashmore joined Reynard Motorsports to begin work on their first Indycar. Within two years Reynard overtook Lola to become the leading Indycar chassis manufacturer. Bruce's role with Reynard Motorsport took him to the United States where he setup Reynard North America (RNA) and later built the Auto Research Center (ARC) in Indianapolis, Indiana. ARC became the Reynard North American Headquarters. Between 1993 and 1998, he served as Technical Director for RNA and later also for ARC and then in 1999 became president of RNA. Ashmore joined Forysthe Championship Racing CART team in 2001. After two successful years with the team where he planned the Championship title bid in 2003 he left at the end of 2002 to start Ashmore Design. Ashmore Design has had contracts with Menard Competition Technologies, Menard Engineering, RuSPORT Champ Car team, Conquest Racing and more recently with C&R Racing Incorporated. Ashmore helped Chris Paulsen design the C&R Racing United States Auto Club (USAC) Silver Crown race car. It's Bruce's deal and money doing this. There are 23 of these cars owned by somebody, a couple of the owners are here on IOW and they like what is their future.

If this is Bruce's deal and money and not affiliated with USAC, what are all those mentions and logos for USAC? And if he has 23 of them sold, he should be at least approaching getting his money back. Looks a lot like a pretty standard sprint/midget/SC chassis with some extra body work.

While I don't disagree with those that say the car is ugly, I can get around that if they get a bunch of them and run regularly. I like short track modifieds too and not many people will say they are pretty cars.

Since most of the people that are going to be interested in a series like this are pretty much opposed to road courses, why even mention road courses before they have an oval race? A large percentage of what is left of the Indycar fan base thinks the current Indycar is ugly and slow. Does anyone entertain a notion that this series will attract any of them?

[RACEMS41]

The last race for the USAC sanctioned New Generation Silver Crown car was Phoenix 2007: Car count 23
Phoenix USAC Silver Crown race last week: Car count 23

[Lucky161]

Originally Posted by D.O. Bruce is setting up his own series for the cars. I would bet that many of the old NASCAR engines end up here. Remember new Toyota's, New Fords, new Dodges and Chevy for the cup series where does all the old engines go? 360 western state sprints?, Gold crown and everywhere. This car will be on display at the Indy show with a chevy engine from Earnhardt/Ganassi. Only at this moment IOW is the only place the latest picture of this project are. Thanks to Bruce Ashmore for the first look.

I don't understand why engines are even any sort of issue here. There is a more than adequate supply of engine builders in place now that can build engines. The problem was never one of engines. The problem was rear end lift.

But since engines have been brought up. If they just use small block Chevys things will be fine. And probably if they use Chevys, Fords and Mopars things will be fine as well. But when you bring Toyota into the mix, the ballgame changes. Toyota doesn't make any vehicle that uses their push rod V8s. So you get 30+ cars and 28 of them a Chevys and two of them are Toyotas. Immediately you have a bunch of Gaerte's and Wesmars competing against a global giant with almost unlimited funds. Does Chevy step in to help? What happens to that car count when 28 cars don't stand a chance? Does Toyota stop at engines? What is their track record in cases like this? Shock Dynos and wind tunnels?

[speed9]

Good luck in this new series. USAC tried this a few years ago (something simular). Silver crown has been around a long time and have decent car counts. USAC tried to update this series with the new car. It might of worked if they could of filled the stands and made the 90,000 investment pay off. Sprinter are hurting on pavement and midgets are a little better, crowd at Salem and PIR were small. Talk of doing away with pavement sprinters and fewer races on the big tracks for midgets realy makes a person think about a new series and start up funds and car count. larger tracks brings more seats and bigger prize money, if the seats are filled. USAC fell back to the old SC cars on pavement becase the owners did not see a advantage to the new car and new cost, do we see it different now? The big car series went well due to car count and they ran close to home.
Just my thoughts on a new series, cost vers advancement to a higher better paying series. Why dont the people starting this series offer a updated body for their current SC cars and phase the new chassie in a little at a time, just makes sense.
If you think going to NASCAR or the IRL is not about money please tell me why JJ, Levie, B. East, Coons, Kuhn, Dave Darland and lots more have not moved on? If drivers made lots of money they all would move on.
New Team 165,000 for truck 125,000 for trailer 35,00 for a motor must have 4 two dirt two pavement, four wheeler 7500, pit cart tools 45,000 this includes starter packs, now tires 32 rims and tires 50 or so for stager and compound. How about mechanics 6 to start, one truck driver, one chief for the cars one tire man and two wrenches for each car. Now lets pay 40% to 50% to the driver he is the one trusting your car and mechanics with his life. Travel hotels pit passes and eats are a major cost in addition to these others.
I love racing and go watch as much as possible and help if I can and I wish all owners, drivers, and promoters good luck in these times.