[LEADERS EDGE]

I don't know what tire deal he had with Hoosier or if he has one with A/R, but if he turned down getting paid by Hoosier or A/R to open the tire rules, then I have to say that was a big step and a big leap of faith. I hope it works.

[Charles Nungester]

The one major savings I see is that unless there is a flat, YOU USE ONE TIRE a night instead of possibly three, Qual, Heat, Feature (Even though it wasn't necessary to do before, Top teams did it anyway.

It also allows possibly firestone or Goodyear, Toyo, Whatever to come if if they choose. If Blimpie offered their subs for 4.50 don't you think the others would match it?

Chuck

[DonMoore10]

I think I'm hearing echoes of the all time infamous phrase.. "that's the way it's always been done" or at least the way it's been done in recent memory. I started another thread a week or so ago asking fans about their opinion of what was a "turn on" for them to come back to a race track for another racing experience. Time and time again, race fans said that it didn't matter about the tires, chassis, oil, fuel, etc etc.. or whether it was lawnmowers racing or what not...Fans are interesting in close, exciting competition. Most fans have no idea about stagger, tire compounds, size, width brand etc etc. It doesn't matter!!! IT DOESN"T MATTER!!! It's the competitive racing and the thrill of watching someone come from the back that raises the hair on a race fans body!

The Leaders Edge post was written by Scott Baue, whom I have leaned on time and time again for advice and guidance. The Baues, Scott and his bro Bill, are seasoned experts when it comes to open wheel racing. But they, by no means watch auto racing like the average fan in the stand. I greatly enjoy a good competitive basketball game, but I've never played in an organized game and by no means do I watch a BB game the same way an experienced coach would view the game. I listen to a piece of music in an entirely different way than the average concertgoer.

Until there is some serious research to the contrary regarding all of the tire issues presented in this thread, I'm having a hard time believing that the size and compound of a tire is going to cause race fans to stay away from a race track.

[LEADERS EDGE]

I agree that I don't see it maybe the same way someone else would. I was just speaking for myself.

I guess I go back to this; if it is apples to apples and the fans don't care, why hasn't the sportsman series gathered more steam in the last 10 years. A variation of this style of program has been in place around the Chicago area for at least 10 years without either a great interest in cars or fans. Both have stayed pretty much the same from it's inception. Again, nothing against it, it has a place, but it hasn't outdone the other "National" style organizations that run there. I will say that the "National" series isn't huge either. We are talking groups that are in the area of one of our country's largest metropolitan areas. That may be an indication that basically any form of this type of racing isn't what people want to see.

I don't really think any "fan" that posts on here is without some bias. Problem is though, we don't have enough casual fans period to make any kind of real assesment on what an "average" one wants.

I will say this; even if it is just a second difference and that doesn't seem like much, if on a track where the laps are 15 seconds; in a 30 lap feature a car would be lapped nearly twice. Any fan would notice that and if they have seen these style of cars and then they see them, you notice a second.

I am very serious about this Don, I could talk to the tire manufactures and we can get some tracks to let us test all of the different combinations. We would have to use one of your cars and we would have to find an unbiased driver. If I am wrong then I am wrong. I just don't see how this direction in the tire rules would benefit the sport. Hoosier,American Racer, and Goodyear all make a tire similar to what you are talking about.

[DonMoore10]

My cars are available and I have an unbiased driver(s) in mind.

In terms of the lack of interest in the Chicago area, what about the lack of interest at Sun Prairie? A 50% decline in participates since 1999. We are down to one dirt race track in Ohio presenting midgets and that's a once a year half mile support class race. Midgets used to be popular all over northern Ohio and that has been wiped out completely. There are a total of 6 short track dirt races left in Indiana, and four of those are within one week. I guess park your midget for the rest of the summer.

Fans love large car counts. I'm not talking about 50-60 cars but 30-40 cars for a race. Now, what promoter is going to turn down a proposal to race midgets if that many cars show up? I can tell you that there are a couple in Indiana that would schedule midgets on a regular basis if that many cars would show up and that there also could be races promoted at several tracks in Ohio with that guarantee.

In my opinion, it has not been a lack of fan interest. It has been the greed of the midget orgs that has caused midget racing to be looked at as a high dollar sport, along with the super millionaire teams that have endless dollars. That is the perception that we have presently. The fans didn't mandate the extra cubes for the $37,000+ engines, nor the titanium and carbon fiber parts, or the biased weight rule that gives an advantage to the tiny drivers, etc etc etc etc. It was the midget orgs that did it!!!!!!!!!!! If the current trend continues, we are looking at midget racing gradually becoming extinct unless this trend is reversed. It's already happening, people. You are all in denial if you think otherwise.

BTW, Scott, I did not connect on the 1 second off lapping in 30 laps statement. Hey, I've seen tons of racing with the present equipment with the leader lapping a good percentage of the field.

And finally, I am proposing this: I would be glad to show up with my two midgets at a dirt short track, in front of race fans, and have my two cars race against each other for 10 laps with the current mandated purple tires. Bring the cars in, change the tires and wheel configuration to what I am proposing and then have them race another 10 laps. For that matter, how many other midget owners would be interesting in joining me with this experiment? Now forget about all the people in the pits... ask the fans what they thought about the racing!!!! Was one race better than the other?? Did the tires and wheel size make any difference to you as a fan?????? and I'm wondering after the racing was over if the fans could tell you which race was demonstrating the purple tires???????? BTW, I already know the answer!!!!!!!!!!!

And to make it even more interesting, I will pick out a track in Ohio where the fans haven't seen midgets race in a long time and let's see if the fans can pick out the purple tire racing!

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 I think I'm hearing echoes of the all time infamous phrase.. "that's the way it's always been done" or at least the way it's been done in recent memory.

Well that has a dual purpose here Don. The off topic BS is the way things have always been done around here. :O:

[Z-man]

"And to make it even more interesting, I will pick out a track in Ohio where the fans haven't seen midgets race in a long time and let's see if the fans can pick out the purple tire racing!"

Are you insinuating that the fans in Ohio are color blind?

[Kirk Spridgeon]

If close competition and runs from the back were all that race fans wanted to see, you wouldn't see the World of Outlaws being the pinnacle of sprint car & midget racing. They just don't have that. Face it, speed and on-the-edge driving is what brings in the majority of fans. You can survey the sample on this message board, but that doesn't give you a good cross-section....you're only getting the die-hards!

Just as much as close competition is needed, you also have to have hair-raising speed. If track records don't get broken, then what's the point? New fans and part-time fans want to see guys on the edge, pushing the limit of their cars....I always say that the reason I like traditional sprint cars is because you can SEE and HEAR that they are pushing the car to the limit and getting absolutely every ounce of speed that car and track will allow.

Taking steps backwards in this department will not help. I am a huge supporter of trying to corral both tire and engine costs, but taking performance away from the cars only brings things down a level....

Also, and this is just for everyone to think about, and not a judgment from me - if you have more than one company producing a spec tire, the limits will be tested. Does anybody remember guys getting killed in stock cars because of tire problems?

No matter if a company is associated with tires, rear ends, shocks, engines, etc. etc., they always want to be associated with the winner. Just as Don posted the story above....people want to be linked to a winner and they always have! No matter how much you piss and moan, the winners will always get some special treatment, and they have earned that by winning! It's good to be the king, and that's because you have to earn the spot up on top of the mountain! All those companies constantly look for an edge so their equipment can win - and if they have to give it to a good team to make sure it wins, that's what they'll do!

And the tire companies, if forced to compete, will do everything they can to visit victory lane, even if that means bending the rules...

Those are just a few of my thoughts. Of course, I've posted them before and they were only dismissed as being off-topic or something. Hopefully they are deemed topical this time!

[DonMoore10]

You may want to revisit the thread on what turns the fans on at a race track.

[Kirk Spridgeon]

Work on your reading comprehension, Don. I addressed the part about your informal poll of those fans who frequent a message board such as this one. Unfortunately, all of sprint car and midget racing cannot be supported by the small numbers on this board....