[SlideJob Jones]

Coming from someone who races in a division where nothing has even been done about engine costs....you all should be thankful. Soon you'll be spending 10-15k on motors to run up front, otherwise.

When were the Waynesfield cars called "outlaw" or 1200? They were the "1000cc mini sprints" as long as I can remember. Before that they were "600cc mini sprints". Why don't some of you guys wanting to spend that kind of money sack up and buy a real sprint car? Those guys like to spend money too.

It seems the majority of the bitchers run cars elsewhere, but want to whine that a "track they were thinking about running once in a while" changed the rule. Kudos to waynesfield for stepping up and trying to get things under control.

Aside from that, the rule said it was OK to convert the injection to alcohol. This implies - stock injection only. A cheaters mind says an engler, or other aftermarket injection is OK.

PS, lame for AMSA and Waynesfield to ignore the thin-walled cars. Like they're any safer winged vs. non-winged.

Quit your crying, and race.

[jjones752]

Sorry, but I paid $3500 for a car with a 1200 Suzuki so I could run an affordable class, and at 60 years old that's all the "sacking up" I got. I really could care less about what Waynefield is or isn't doing, I'm more concerned with the AMSA end of it. If they were still going to allow the OLDER 1200's to run, and were still going to promote some non-wing shows elsewhwere as they had done in the past, I wouldn't even be posting here. Newer 1200 engines are another matter entirely; I don't have "that kind of money" either. Not crying, just commenting. I'd love to race my 1200, non wing, somewhere other than Montpelier "once in awhile" this year, but if the AMSA is no longer offering that, then so be it. Good luck to all you guys who choose to run at Waynesfield and have fun. Patrick and PJohnson, I'll see you guys at Montpelier. I'll be in the Prevost motor coach with the inflatable hot tub out front. Hah!

[scott bradley1x]

Originally Posted by SlideJob Jones Coming from someone who races in a division where nothing has even been done about engine costs....you all should be thankful. Soon you'll be spending 10-15k on motors to run up front, otherwise. When were the Waynesfield cars called "outlaw" or 1200? They were the "1000cc mini sprints" as long as I can remember. Before that they were "600cc mini sprints". Why don't some of you guys wanting to spend that kind of money sack up and buy a real sprint car? Those guys like to spend money too. It seems the majority of the bitchers run cars elsewhere, but want to whine that a "track they were thinking about running once in a while" changed the rule. Kudos to waynesfield for stepping up and trying to get things under control. Aside from that, the rule said it was OK to convert the injection to alcohol. This implies - stock injection only. A cheaters mind says an engler, or other aftermarket injection is OK. PS, lame for AMSA and Waynesfield to ignore the thin-walled cars. Like they're any safer winged vs. non-winged. Would love to race with them but can't all stock r1's with engler injection = no laps. Oh well,I understand where you comming from but if you want to single out one form of system might as well do it to all of them Quit your crying, and race.

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[scott bradley1x]

Are you related to some other jones on here?? Been in mini's since 01. Sure you have been around longer. Now my point is as long as a car meets the weight requirements what's the deal. You say quit crying but you are sitting there crying about thin walled cars. And 15,000 motors .What gives?? You re-post and input would be appreciated . Scott Bradley

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[Wayne Davis]

Debate, argue, whine, *****.....think about it...reason it out....

There are ways so EVERYBODY can race TOGETHER....

1 you take that 16' squared motor killer off the top
2 you add weight to the larger engines
3 if that isn't enough then they have to run a harder RR and/or LR
4 Stock Bore and Stroke NO AFERMARKET internals (a quote from Sheldon Kinser Jr. you don't need them with the sissy flap gone) Motorcycle power or up to 2.4 Durotec/Ecotec engines with STOCK INTERNALS

This will bring EVERYBODY closer together on the track and you do not become out $$$.... racing will be closer... engine bill will be cheaper...tire bill will be cut in half....and the FANS will leave alot happier and want to come back for more.


Then you can come race with the Division II Midgets (MIDGETS DON'T HAVE WINGS!!)

[buckshot3448]

I think not allowing the 1200's is more for the newer motors. You guys with the older oiled cooled motors might want to give them a call and see if they would let you race. Some areas have allowed them to still run with stock 1000's. I believe they went to these rules to keep cost down. If things were to keep going with people building these big motors the cost is going to go thru the roof. You can deny it all you want but ive already seen it happen in a few series were a few people start to build motors and then every one is trying to build a big motor. The next thing you know your blowing motors every few weeks. Personally i could care less what motor I run against I still plan on being fast with the weight rules. The engler thing i dont really blame them there expensive and theres more hp gains with them. Ive ran mechanical before and it can be a hassle as well. With the way stock injection is and the ease of use theres no reason to buy soemthing different especially when hyper is doing them for around 7-800.

[PatrickMead#13]

Originally Posted by jjones752 Sorry, but I paid $3500 for a car with a 1200 Suzuki so I could run an affordable class, and at 60 years old that's all the "sacking up" I got. I really could care less about what Waynefield is or isn't doing, I'm more concerned with the AMSA end of it. If they were still going to allow the OLDER 1200's to run, and were still going to promote some non-wing shows elsewhwere as they had done in the past, I wouldn't even be posting here. Newer 1200 engines are another matter entirely; I don't have "that kind of money" either. Not crying, just commenting. I'd love to race my 1200, non wing, somewhere other than Montpelier "once in awhile" this year, but if the AMSA is no longer offering that, then so be it. Good luck to all you guys who choose to run at Waynesfield and have fun. Patrick and PJohnson, I'll see you guys at Montpelier. I'll be in the Prevost motor coach with the inflatable hot tub out front. Hah!

Ditto. Thank you

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[pjohnson]

This is not about Waynefield its about all these series outlawing the old 1100 and 1200 engines (not new ones) We are not whining Those of you who are afraid of our old engines are. Our engines have been call old outdated boat anchors that will never win a race. You say shut up and race then let us boat anchors run. But score us instead of saying we have to finish last. Dad I have a light foot lol.

[DAD]

Observations of an old time over the hill racer

1. Rules to make racing more affordable very seldom achieve their purpose.

2. Spec tire rules should make racing cheaper for the competitor. That means the spec tire should be supplied at a cost cheaper than the racer can buy the tire anyplace else.

3.A racer has a much better chance of winning the "A" main event even on a hard spec. tire if they start the race on a sticker right rear tire.

4.Weight is everything. We were much more successful with an inexperienced 90 pound driver than we are with a very experienced 250 pound driver.

5. If you have one of these things you really want to slow down a little >just add weight. Jerry proved this in AMSA a few years ago.

6. Racers love to experiment, some of us will do anything to be different. That makes it a challenge, and makes us racers.

7. These motors will get more powerful every year, that's how they keep on selling more motorcycles.

8.A good driver and set up man can make almost any car fast.

9. Race car chassis design changes every year. That is how they sell more cars. Sometimes they have to go back 20 or 30 years to find a new design to bring back to the racing public.

10. Even though the car design changes every year it is always the same driver and team doing the winning.

11. The stock 1000 cc motor made the outlaw 1200 cc motor too expensive and obsolete to race.

12. The stock 1000cc motor starts out life at about 175 horsepower or so, If you could get it in a 410 cubic inch version you would have a 14000 horse power sprint car motor.

13. The motor cycle people did not leave a lot of room for improvement on their design and usually modification will actually subtract horsepower from the engine.

14. If you spend a ton of money for a race motor the old "BUTT DYNO" in going to see a large horsepower increase.

15. You can not protect a person from themselves, so stop trying and save money and energy.

16. The 5% of the "1000cc Midget Racers" writing into this web site are the most vocal and opinionated S.O.B.'s that I know of, and most of them share the same last name. I might be just a little bit guilty.

17. There appear to be a few 1200cc cars out there still. They are for the most part owned by racers just getting into the sport and not wishing to spend a lot more money to re-power right now.
As a recovering addict I know if we get them hooked now when that old motor lays down they will find the money for a newer motor even if the kids have to give up shoes for the summer. I would like to see us "grandpa" these motors, mark them and say no more after this one dies..

18. It is much easier to be a nice guy if you don't write the rules.

19. Race directors need to be fair and follow the rules even if the rules suck. If it is a bad rule change it or get rid of it next year. If racers even think you are playing favorites you will loose your racers.

20. Every body likes to think that they have a chance of winning. Nobody wants to race for second place. If the director see's a certain team becoming dominant he needs to do something to slow that team down.

21. Good driving and experience means a lot in racing, these people will always be out front. New racers tend to think the guys beating them are cheating and if driving skill and experience in setting up a race car is cheating then these racers are cheating.

22. Cheaters usually run mid pack. Guys wining can't afford to be caught cheating nor do they have to.

23. These motors can make more horsepower on $25.00 a gallon race fuel than they will on methanol, even more if you add a little more nitro propane to the mix and race track fuel testers have a hard time catching them.

24. Methanol is a much safer fuel choice and very hard to cheat with.

25. Converting over to methanol is not a big cost factor. You don't need a $3000.00 conversion to do the job. I spent less than $300.00 on mine.

26. The left nerf bar rule is out of date. USAC has a great rule for this.

27. Racing is very addictive! Once one experiences their first win much like drugs they spend the rest of their lives looking for that same high they experienced so long ago and will never be able to duplicate again. Be very careful and work on not getting addicted.

[jjones752]

Well said Dad, esp. #17; that's me in a nutshell (emphasize "NUT").
To quote Sheryl Crow, "I'll I wanna do is have some fun".
That's it. See you April 5th, if I get the old girl ready by then...