[I Miss Manzy]

I stand corrected!!

[LRP36]

I have heard that the silver crown teams will get their fuel for free so that will save the teams some money. You will burn less fuel with ethanol but your motor is going to run approx. 35-60 degrees hotter. So in order to get the temp back down to a comfortable level you are going to have re-engineer your plumbing system to try and cool the motor better. Bigger radiators are going to be needed. For the fuel system you are going to have to change the fuel pump from say a 450 flow to possibly a 300 flow. Smaller nozzles, smaller diameter intake stacks. What everyone doesn't realize is the issues that the valve trains will have at a places like Iowa or even the dirt miles.

[monkeyboy]

I like the arguing. Makes the off season interesting. This place is almost as fun as 4m these days. Half the fuel half the distance half the fans.

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[ByronMack]

Originally Posted by monkeyboy I like the arguing. Makes the off season interesting. This place is almost as fun as 4m these days. Half the fuel half the distance half the fans. Posted via Mobile Device

Not to mention using food to make fuel. How counterproductive is that?

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[koolaid89]

It's from Wikipedia so take it for what it's worth... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_ethanol

There are two main types of corn ethanol production: dry milling and wet milling. The products of each type are utilized in different ways.

In the dry milling process the entire corn kernel is ground into flour and referred to as “meal.” The meal is then slurried by adding water. Enzymes are added to the mash that convert starch to dextrose, a simple sugar. Ammonia is added to control the pH and as a nutrient for the yeast, which is added later. The mixture is processed at high-temperatures to reduce the bacteria levels and transferred and cooled in fermenters. This is where the yeast is added and conversion from sugar to ethanol and carbon dioxide begins.

The entire process takes between 40 to 50 hours, during which time the mash is kept cool and agitated in order to facilitate yeast activity. After the process is complete, everything is transferred to distillation columns where the ethanol is removed from the “stillage”. The ethanol is dehydrated to about 200 proof using a molecular sieve system and a denaturant such as gasoline is added to render the product undrinkable. With this last addition, the process is complete and the product is ready to ship to gasoline retailers or terminals. The remaining stillage then undergoes a different process to produce a highly nutritious livestock feed. The carbon dioxide released from the process is also utilized to carbonate beverages and to aid in the manufacturing of dry ice.

Doesn't sound too counterproductive to me.

[racephoto1]

Sorry, but livestock feed doesn't sound to palatable to me. If you look at corn prices, there is a direct correalation between the cost of corn and the production of ethanol .

Also do to the government subsidy of the ethanol industry, besides the food costs increasing, I also get money removed from paycheck to pay for it's production. I also subsidizes it's growth, with pay outs to farmers.

Seems like the only winners in this deal are the ones on the government teat. Take away the subsidies, let it stand on it's own merit, sink or swin, and maybe it will get a little respect.

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by racephoto1 Sorry, but livestock feed doesn't sound to palatable to me. If you look at corn prices, there is a direct correalation between the cost of corn and the production of ethanol . Also do to the government subsidy of the ethanol industry, besides the food costs increasing, I also get money removed from paycheck to pay for it's production. I also subsidizes it's growth, with pay outs to farmers. Seems like the only winners in this deal are the ones on the government teat. Take away the subsidies, let it stand on it's own merit, sink or swin, and maybe it will get a little respect.

Looks like the government ethanol subsidy you use for part of your argument may be disappearing anyway.

Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...75F5IN20110616

[DAD]

Originally Posted by koolaid89 It's from Wikipedia so take it for what it's worth... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_ethanol There are two main types of corn ethanol production: dry milling and wet milling. The products of each type are utilized in different ways. In the dry milling process the entire corn kernel is ground into flour and referred to as “meal.” The meal is then slurried by adding water. Enzymes are added to the mash that convert starch to dextrose, a simple sugar. Ammonia is added to control the pH and as a nutrient for the yeast, which is added later. The mixture is processed at high-temperatures to reduce the bacteria levels and transferred and cooled in fermenters. This is where the yeast is added and conversion from sugar to ethanol and carbon dioxide begins. The entire process takes between 40 to 50 hours, during which time the mash is kept cool and agitated in order to facilitate yeast activity. After the process is complete, everything is transferred to distillation columns where the ethanol is removed from the “stillage”. The ethanol is dehydrated to about 200 proof using a molecular sieve system and a denaturant such as gasoline is added to render the product undrinkable. With this last addition, the process is complete and the product is ready to ship to gasoline retailers or terminals. The remaining stillage then undergoes a different process to produce a highly nutritious livestock feed. The carbon dioxide released from the process is also utilized to carbonate beverages and to aid in the manufacturing of dry ice. Doesn't sound too counterproductive to me.

That sounds real neat. What did they do with that co2 stuff again? I sure don't want that loose in our air, it might make holes in atmosphere or even make trees grow more.

They make menthanol out of coal, coal miners need work too. But big farmers contribute more to Washington than coal people and God knows they need more subsidies to keep those pledges rolling in.

Give me a break!!!

Honest Dad himself

[ThrowbackRacingTeam]

We were going to make a return to Silver Crown racing this year with our low budget team due to a new sponsor/partner but now I am unsure I want to go through all the headaches of re-doing the fuel system and buying a bigger radiator on top of all the other stuff that has to be done. Our engine builder has no experience setting up for this fuel. I don't like the idea of running hotter in those long races. Apparently teams will have to make a trip just to pick up fuel so you can get some before the first race to test. Methanol is everywhere.

USAC has a rule mandating a large tank and I doubt you'll see that change or that would kill the series for sure if this doesn't already.

We will definately skip the Hoosier 100 to see what happens before we spend a dime. I will go as spectator though and support it that way.

My question is....did the series really need this right now?

[racephoto1]

The best advice I could give anone with a dirt champ car is contact someone in Indycar. They run it and deal with it all the time, and understand it's effect on parts.

It would have been nice for USAC, to put together a couple workshops in conjunction with some Indycar mechanics to discuss these issues.I know that ain't gonna happen though. Still it would be a nice gesture on their part if they did. They need to remember, with no competitors you have no USAC.