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Hawker (Offline)
  #21 3/30/08 3:41 AM
Most USAC drivers have about as much business driving a rear engined 200+ mph Indy car, as most IRL drivers do driving a 850hp 1,300lb Sprint car...

Times have changed in almost every form of motorsports, except for sprints and midgets. The only real change for them were from the Offy to the V8.

If you want to race NASCAR, start off in Modifieds and Late Models (and now Sprints & Midgets). If you want to run rear engine pavement cars (F1 or IRL), start off in Karts, Formula Renault, Formula 3 and GP2.

BTW, it IS okay to enjoy different types of racing. I find some sort of enjoyment in pretty much ALL forms of motorsports.
SUPERDUKE (Offline)
  #22 3/30/08 6:48 AM
Bring These Clowns To Winchester And Run A 14 Sec. Lap In A Sprint Car And Then They Can Go To The Speedway!
cecil98 (Offline)
  #23 3/30/08 7:43 AM
Half the field is American. Which is a shock in itself because the FIRST boarding race school is about to open. The thing most people do not relize is these Forgein drivers are better educatated in marketing and the way the car works which gives them the advantage in talking to engineers and sponsers then the majority of natural born drivers.

Face it the way to Indy is through through Carts on road courses..........smbperformance



smb, I'm telling you, everytime I try to prosyletize, for the sport, all I get is "we don't know who those guys are and we don't care"! That's a fact. You can diminish the impact of the disappearing American circle tracker on Indy Car racing all you want but, you're only kidding yourself. By your theory we would never have seen the likes of Foyt, Jones, Andretti, Sneva, Johncock and Rutherford. They were all circle trackers who adapted to the rear-engine cars with ease. No, it's much more than being better educated and possessing better technical expertise, it's that most of the foreign drivers seem to come from, and bring, more money.
Another thing, we raced go-karts on both road courses and ovals. Go-karts essentially have "NO" suspensions thus, how does one gain technical expertise on setting up a formula-type car from a rigid structure like a go-kart? That's a bunch of bull but, even if what you say is true, then the powers that be in Indy car racing desparately need to develop a program to recruit and train circle trackers on the nuances of the Indy type cars and marketing. As long as foreigners dominate all of the top rides in the sport, it will never grow in this country. Danica is a girl and Marco is an Andretti, otherwise, we have no Americans in top tier rides. Hornish was the last American that was of the wrong gender or, not born into racing royalty, that landed a top tier ride.
SUPERDUKE (Offline)
  #24 3/30/08 8:02 AM
Hawker Your Right! Now Tell Aj Foyt Al & Bobby & Al Jr Unser Johnny Rutherford Pancho Carter Gary Bettenhausen Rick Mears Parnelli Jones And Ruby Mcelreath Andretti Mccuskey Sneva Vukovich Johncock Snider Mosley Dickson Richmond Kunzman Dallenbach Sessions Polard Grim Hulse Kenyon Foster Ward Boyd Tingelstad Branson Williams ! That They Had No Business In The Indy 500!
smbpreformance (Offline)
  #25 3/30/08 8:26 AM
Originally Posted by SUPERDUKE:
Hawker Your Right! Now Tell Aj Foyt Al & Bobby & Al Jr Unser Johnny Rutherford Pancho Carter Gary Bettenhausen Rick Mears Parnelli Jones And Ruby Mcelreath Andretti Mccuskey Sneva Vukovich Johncock Snider Mosley Dickson Richmond Kunzman Dallenbach Sessions Polard Grim Hulse Kenyon Foster Ward Boyd Tingelstad Branson Williams ! That They Had No Business In The Indy 500!
Different time.....Different era........Different cars.......Different everything
SUPERDUKE (Offline)
  #26 3/30/08 8:44 AM
Tell Me Did You Ever Drive A Race Car
openwheelKT (Offline)
  #27 3/30/08 8:47 AM
Originally Posted by Dwight Clock:
Of course, for the most part, you are correct. But, on occasion, one of those backmarkers puts on quite a show. Scott Goodyear coming from 33rd and last in '92 to give Al Unser Jr. the race of his life to the checkered flag is one of the most compelling finishes in the history of the 500.
To be fair, Mike Groff actually qualified that car. Goodyear couldn't get enough speed out of it and was going to miss the race. That's why the car started 33rd...driver change. Goodyear did of course drive it to 2nd, but Groff put it in the show. The worst weather day I've ever been to was '92.

As for 33.... Why would you cut back from 33 just to have bumping? If you have 33 or just a few over, why send cars home just add some "excitement" to it? That makes no sense. It's been 33 forever (except on a few occations) and it needs to stay there. I think this year you'll see 40...few more, few less.
smbpreformance (Offline)
  #28 3/30/08 9:29 AM
Originally Posted by cecil98:
Half the field is American. Which is a shock in itself because the FIRST boarding race school is about to open. The thing most people do not relize is these Forgein drivers are better educatated in marketing and the way the car works which gives them the advantage in talking to engineers and sponsers then the majority of natural born drivers.

Face it the way to Indy is through through Carts on road courses..........smbperformance



smb, I'm telling you, everytime I try to prosyletize, for the sport, all I get is "we don't know who those guys are and we don't care"! That's a fact. You can diminish the impact of the disappearing American circle tracker on Indy Car racing all you want but, you're only kidding yourself. By your theory we would never have seen the likes of Foyt, Jones, Andretti, Sneva, Johncock and Rutherford. They were all circle trackers who adapted to the rear-engine cars with ease. No, it's much more than being better educated and possessing better technical expertise, it's that most of the foreign drivers seem to come from, and bring, more money.
Another thing, we raced go-karts on both road courses and ovals. Go-karts essentially have "NO" suspensions thus, how does one gain technical expertise on setting up a formula-type car from a rigid structure like a go-kart? That's a bunch of bull but, even if what you say is true, then the powers that be in Indy car racing desparately need to develop a program to recruit and train circle trackers on the nuances of the Indy type cars and marketing. As long as foreigners dominate all of the top rides in the sport, it will never grow in this country. Danica is a girl and Marco is an Andretti, otherwise, we have no Americans in top tier rides. Hornish was the last American that was of the wrong gender or, not born into racing royalty, that landed a top tier ride.


Karts were ment as a place to start not the direct path. Karts give you the throttle control and the teaches you how to drive and choose a line. Most top teir open wheel drivers still race Karts to stay sharp when they are not racing their main car. However like someone else talked about you must leave Karts and go into formula style cars like Vee, 2000, Ford, Star Mazda..... And now the path way from Indy Lights (IPS) to the IRL is starting to opening up.


I also like BC and cheer for him every week but I am going to use him as an example because he is one we all know.

But look at the carrer path of BC and the carrer path of Montoya, Castronevas, Dixon, Servia, Kannan and other.

BC grew up racing quarters in Cali then at 13/14 moved to Indy and was running sprints and kenyons. He had success on the local series and that got him noticed getting in increasingly better and better quality cars. When he turned 16 he started racing on a national level and shortly after that he got notced and then the first thing Gannasi did was put him in pavement late models a car similar to the ones he was going to run. The only formal education that he has is from the Noblesville school district

Then if you look at the "foregin" drivers they start racing Karts at 5 or so and compete there for a couple of years until they can get accepted into a race school. Once they get into school they not only practice driving but they are taught how to present yourself, find and talk to potential sponsers and keep your sponsers and how to talk to the media. These are the things you need to do to get the bills paid as you move through the ranks which they do while they are in school on the weekends. Vechile dynamics is a vast subject and is more then a pound of air here a round of "wedge" here it is knowing the scrub radius of the tire and how you can manipulate your line and driving style corner entry and exit to change the handling caretistics of the car. This will allow the drivers and the engineers to have a more intimate releationship and get the car better sooner.

If you play hockey and want to make it to the pros and live in Canada then you go on to play in the Juniors. For years there was a lack of Americans in Pro Hockey unless they moved to Canada to play in the Juniors and now the USHL is formed and opened up that path way. If you are living outside the US and want to race for a living then go to a race school but in america you have to no direct path or formal training. Now there is going to be an american race school which will help.

Most drivers when prepairing for the jump from USAC to NASCAR spend time at a short term driving school like Fast Track or Petty's now how much better would a driver be if they started one of those schools at age 10 and it was a boarding school that they went to year round. During the week they would review last weeks races practice lines and driving styles and learn how and why the car works. Along with learning about PR and marketing. Graduates of that school would have a better chance to make it to NASCAR then some one running dirt tracks and trying to do it on their own.

It is the same if there was an open wheel boarding school in America like there aren in other countries then that would become the best way to make it to Indy
SUPERDUKE (Offline)
  #29 3/30/08 9:40 AM
Your Right The Same Fans That Go To Go Kart Races Are The Ones That Pack The Speedway On The First Day Of Time Trials To Watch There Former 4 Horsepower Briggs & Stranton Driver Race!
smbpreformance (Offline)
  #30 3/30/08 9:46 AM
Originally Posted by SUPERDUKE:
Tell Me Did You Ever Drive A Race Car
Did you ever gradutate from college, did you ever take advanced engineering courses, do you know the finer points of calculas?

Simpliy being a driver does not automaticly mean your opinion is right as much as an education and a college degree does not make mine right

Opinions are like something else we all know about



I have been a mechanic, a crew chief, a gasman, an engineer, a designer a pit steward, a compitition director, a prompoter................

More then drivers dream about kissing the yard of bricks and drinking milk in the month of May. No one talks about how diffucult it is to become a crew member, an engineer, or a mechanic in Indy cars right now. Because of the split the money is not htere but hopefully after 2010 and the new cars the sponsers and money will return
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