We all know JT has to make a decision. My advise to you guys if you get to race Sat.(if not rained out) over that bowl of chili get your point across to him, explain why you don't think the weights won't work on the built motors. Corner him. The econony is hard right now, and what will 2010 bring who knows.I wish you all good luck and hope to see a new face in the winner circle at the burg. I have said enough so I will get out of here. Luck to all

I think it would be better if we just enjoyed the last race and a good bowl of chili....then we can get together in a few weeks and hash things out.

It's tough to get things accomplished on a race night....too many other things going on and I am sure Jerry will be busy with the evenings events.

Let's try to have a good time....Dress warm!

I had really planned on not commenting on this subject. I really do not think Saturday night after the races is the time to corner JT on this subject, let him enjoy the evening. If you want to corner him you might just say thanks for putting all the time into AMSA for little or no financial gain! and let him enjoy the night. We are new to AMSA and are really looking forward to the 2010 racing season, and I think we still are looking forward to it. We have committed to racing a Foz chassis in 2010 and are talking to a varity of motor builders and hope to have that part of our decision made soon (depending on when JT decides). Several have said that they can't understand paying that much for a motor and only racing for $500.00, If you are racing to make money I think this might be the wrong sport. The tire rule makes since as a small step to cutting cost. In an earlier post it was mentioned to set an motor rule for 2011 or 2012 this would allow the bigger motors to cycle through, trying Jerry's weight rule this year.

We have been in karting for the past five years and have watched all of the bickering and complaining and I really hope that we are not heading into another group like that.

If we want AMSA to work we need to get behind Jerry in what ever decission he makes and go racing in 2010!

Whatever rule changes are made, the racers need to decide; Because ultimately, it is the racers that are spending the money. I suggest a rules meeting, possibly during funfest or sometime in October.

It's not as bad is it sounds....way better than quarter midgets where everyone and their grandma had a part in making the rules.

I am sure we can get together, talk this out and put in place some good rules that will make the racing fair and affordable. Then we need to look at what we can do to market the sport to new members coming from Karting, Quarter Midgets, etc.

See you guys Saturday!

Coming from karting this is more affordable racing even with no rule changes.

I hope you guys don't mind me commenting on this subject even though I am from the Northeast. I spoke with Jerry a week or so ago on the phone. I have had several people contact me from the Ohio/Indiana area who are interested in my car.(2006 Henchcraft with ZX12's) They all expressed concerns over the rules for next year. I took it upon myself to call Jerry and ask him what his thoughts were for rules next year as this affects me too with trying to sell my stuff. What I found was a man who really seems to care for his group and is genuinely torn as to what to do. I can only offer the same information I offered him.

I have run the ZX12's for the better part of 3 years now. When we first made the jump from a Bailey with an oil cooled GSXR to the Hench with a ZX12, it was in large part because the top dog in our series(#44 as he was refered to earlier in the thread) was running this package as well as many west coast guys who were having success. I was fortunate enough at the time to have a car owner who funded most of the costs for a new car. What I found out is there was no magic involved with the ZX12. We won a few shows at our local Friday night track, and had some moderate success with the touring group.(heat wins and top 5's) But I also got beat by guys with older cars and smaller motors on several occasions.

My point is not to put to much emphasis on the engines. After the first year #44 dominated with the ZX12 (and I mean dominated!), many people started ******** about the motor and saying it should be illegal. #44 decided the next year to put a stock R1 in his car. Guess what???? He dominated that year as well. This year I think he has a ZX10 in the car and he is.....dominating. I know #44 very well and I would highly doubt anything in his engine could be deemed illegal. He is a great driver, and knows how to set his car up. In my honest opinion, this is what makes him a threat to win every week.

I agree that minisprint racing should be an affordable way to race an open wheeled car without incurring high sprint car costs. This is everybody's main attraction to the class in the first place. But you need to be careful when deeming things illegal that people are still racing with. Remember, minisprints started out as a 1200cc class. Granted, nobody is building a 1200 right now. So does that mean that in 5 years if Yamaha or Kawasaki builds a 1200 the rules need to be rewritten once again? Seems pretty silly to me.

All I can offer to you guys is my opinion and my experiences. Shane Rosson once told me that if you weigh up to 180-190 pounds, you should run a stock R1 or ZX10. If you are upwards of 200 or 210 (like myself), you should be using a ZX12. The reasoning is very simple. If I put a stock 1000 in my car, there is no way in hell I could get down to a 925 or 930 weight. Right now with my ZX12, I am lucky to get under 1000 pounds. Most nights I am 1010 when we fill up the bladder and err on the side of caution. Also remember the ZX12 is a good 40 pounds heavier than any other engine, so it already comes with a built-in handicap along with the extra horses. The guys that spend 8-10K getting motor work done are a completely different subject. My ZX12's are as stock as the guy with a stock R1 or ZX10.

My advice would be to allow anyone with an engine up to 1202cc or 1203cc to compete. The rules we used here in the Northeast were 925 stock 1000cc, 975 anything over up to 1202cc. (my numbers may be slightly off, but it was close to this) I always thought it was a prety fair rule. There were different people running up front every week and most people were happy. The bottom line is no matter what rules or weights are imposed, the fast guys will always be the fast guys becuase they can drive and set up their cars.

Good luck to all you guys going forward. Be thankful you have a series that is thriving and doing well, as the minisprint situation in the Northeast is no where close to what you guys have. If anyone has any questions, don't hesitate to shoot me a message.

Brian Pomponio
TPM Motorsports #20

Rains gone, Chilli sounds great right now!!!

Here is my .02 cents worth..

Weight won't help this problem. We all know that so take that out of consideration...

On the money topic, You can't control people spending money, people with money will spend the money, if not on motors they will have a million shocks, springs and tires in the trialer.. Then what? Mr.Money wins every race because he puts a new RR tire on his car every night, but has a stock motor? Still people wont be happy because of that... Look you want to spend thousands of dollars to win hundred's of dollars, heck be my guest... From a Financial stand point, big money teams are losing more than what the low budget team is..

On the AMSA topic, no matter what we are still gonig to race with them.. Big motor rule or no big motor rule, more weight rule or less weight rule... If both our car's make it to the A main and FINISH in one piece i'm happy (Who wouldn't be).. I will take the tow money and go home smiling... I will tell my drivers they're mistakes, tell them when they did a good job, i will improve on the cars, we will get better.. As for our team, we know we dont have the money for big motors, NOR do we want to spend the money on them. If i can get the car's to handle, drivers to be 100% when the helmet is on and drive a smart race, THEY have a chance to beat any driver out there no matter what...

We have run the MMSA as well this past year, and when we can fit it in we will go run there... Again it's racing, we know what our goals are for the night and our expectations......

AMSA RULES, get everyone together that has a opinion...Then set the rules and stick with them.. I would say NO built motors or whatever.. All stock.. You bigger engine guys, know that you can get a stock motor very easliy... Don't be scared to put a stock motor in your car, i'm sure you can still drive the car with a stock motor as good as you did with the big motor... Right???? Or maybe not, maybe that's why we need the bigger motor's to make up for other factors... You all are racer's you know what those factors are.....

Which brings me to my last point, you have to ask yourself as a grown up/team member/driver/crew/friend/racer reading the post, or whatever you might be associated with the racer, you have to ask your self does any of this really matter? Look, i know when you get in that seat you try to WIN every time.. Not going to happen, just ask the Detroit Lions that... First win since 2007 last weekend..... If you are not happy with people spending WAY to much money on racing, and YOU think that is holding you back from winning a race, becasue someone has more money than you, then dont race anything, not even bikes, roller blades, Match Box cars, heck you know there is people pushing the limit in Pine Box Derby cars.....

When you get in the truck to go home after the race, do you think that "man that guy had a big motor and that's why he won and we finished 13th" or do you think "darn it i should of moved that RR out more, or should of took a tooth off" .... Is it fair to your driver or you as the driver to think of something that you can't control??

Both my little brothers get out of their cars after finishing a race and say "Pat that was fun, or i learned something there" that to me is worth way more than MONEY or worrying who has a big motor.....

JT, you do a fab job with everything....

Patrick Willis

Sorry guys this is very confusing with all this talk of BIG MOTORS and ZX12 's because the only motors over 1000 are the the older oil cooled motors that are not as competitive as a more modern 1000 so unless someone bought a zx12 recently no one has one, so whats the beef?

Most modern day engines stock are on a fairly level field the competitiveness of the motorcycle market sees to that.
So to get an edge we add alcohol systems , get head work done, bore out or stroke and increase compression then dyno it.

OK if you want to keep the costs down decide whats the most expensive thing or things you can quickly test for at the track (without stripping the motor) and disallow them!!

1 overbore or stroke
2 compression


Limiting compression has been discussed for midgets and sprints as has a tire rule
Bottom line is Jerry does a great job and hes a real nice guy.........all will be well!

I say if you want a good car count and a fair playing field make a stock motor rule. The zx12r motors are getting very hard to come by. The stock 1000 motors produce enough hp. To power these cars. The guys that are winning are just doing there homework a little better than the other guy if you ask me. You cant take a half a** race car to the track and think your going to be fast.