[CTtoPA]

Hey Jeff! Thanks for the bowling today! Chris Windom ended up showing up right next to us.

The b-main was run for those to have one more shot at earning their time back. The guys in "transfer" spots got their times while the guy outside of that started behind the rest.

If delaware is Randy Smith, he is a URC driver and I saw him at Grandview as a spectator.

[randyrad]

Originally Posted by nowingsjeff The problem is the PA drivers don't know anything about non-wingers other than the crash tapes. They think it's just too dangerous, and the way they drive it might just be. As far as the track canceling that's easy too. The Grove never really wanted USAC here. They don't want the local fans to know there's something better than what they see at their track each week. Anyway, that's my conspiracy theory take on the subject. LOL Later, Jeff

Jeff - agree. Nobody wants to sit through red flag delays, see drivers hurt & cars crashed. If no significant nonwing experience, it's not the place to learn.

Dry at the Grove at 6 pm. The weather on thir website showed 8pm=cloudy, 9pm=light rain
After driving >120mi, I'd have been happy to watch TT's & some heats, then wait for it to move through.

How's Lincoln feel about wingless. I think they'd run great there. Get 'em on a Sat night show (like URC) with the regular 410's. Once a significant % of Posse fans see a wingless 410 race, they'll come back every year.
Lincoln's not afraid to wait out the rain, especially on a Sat night.
I miss Hagerstown.

[c47]

".....and today is cancelled without a real strong effort to get it in. I'm puzzled!"

although it really doesnt matter now cause its raining
there has been a shift in the way things are done out here. the promoters are leary about opening the gates for a "special" show if there is a pretty good chance of rain.
bob miller wrote an article in AARN over the winter explaining the mindset of the promoters and fans and how both react when the weather looks bad. he explained that people are a lot tighter with their money and wont take a chance if they dont think a show will happen. and the higher the chance of rain, the less chance the fan will take and the less chance the promoter will take to get the show in.

as far as the grove mgt. vs. miller, i dont know how much of that is true, or that it even matters.
the wing car fans are SLOWLY starting to see past the end of their nose...partly due to they are seeing some decent non wing shows with ardc....and partly due to the fact that they are being exposed to a lot of "in your face" non wing discussions, either face to face or thru the boards. i dont think they will ever let go of their love for the wing cars but if we can at least get them out when the non wing cars run locally, that is a BIG step in the right direction.
all the wing car fans i spoke to last night and today loved the show at grandview. so the planned takeover of the wing car stronghold is beginning to take shape

[randyrad]

This is what we E Coast:28:'s do to pass the time during our annual rainout -
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Hage...28914673%40N02

Is this him ?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bantam10/2786014148/

photo credit - Ted Van Pelt

[Charles Nungester]

I really don't buy that NW experience stuff. Half of them are at the Silly Bowl and Wings teach you smoothness. I'd go so far to say it takes much more experience winged to be a front runner than non as the equiptment is much more equalized and the driver makes a ton of the difference. You can make up some time NW even if you mess up a bit but a bobble winged equals half a second.

I really like to see drivers get experience in both as it makes them better overall.

You may be right that a USAC show isn't the place to learn. However others go at it as might as well run with the best and learn from it.

I prefer to think of several of the teams are committed to their weekend program and risking that for this is well, risky.

Ive seen lots of winged guys have success NW, Frankie Kerr, Robby Stanley, Gordon, Haud, S Kinser, Stevie Smith with a total of 1 NW race won 100,000.

Would love to see some of the ARDC guys get rides for this series.

Chuck

[jerseysprintnut]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester And only three Posse. USAC carrys 17 to a track and thats all? Is there another P word to describe it? There used to be REAL OUTLAWS IN PA.

Hey Chuck,
I read a lot of your posts and respect much of them, but your comments about the Posse and the "P" word has caused me to lose some respect for you. They are diff. cars to some degree and race quite a bit different from how these guys(wing) normally race. I was at Kokomo on Sunday May 24 and there were a slim field there also. I won't call the Indiana guys anything for not being there. And by the way, both races were great to see.

Later, JERSEY

[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by jerseysprintnut Hey Chuck, I read a lot of your posts and respect much of them, but your comments about the Posse and the "P" word has caused me to lose some respect for you. They are diff. cars to some degree and race quite a bit different from how these guys(wing) normally race. I was at Kokomo on Sunday May 24 and there were a slim field there also. I won't call the Indiana guys anything for not being there. And by the way, both races were great to see. Later, JERSEY

I got all the respect in the world for them. Bout the only ones in the country that can still kick the WOO butts once in awhile. I was trying to inject a little humor and rivalry and frankly am surprised it took three pages to get a responce to that.

The Woo goes to PA and see what they are called? At the Kings Royal its Posse vs WOO vs. Ohio Regs.

I know its a different animal. I explained a lot of that in my last post prior. I just think a lot of guys are unwilling to jeopardize their weekend normal program. To all who participate to all thinking about it to all who would but can't to all that won't because its NW and only that reason

Take care

I've seen many of the local PA drivers run non-wing, and some have been competitive. For instance, Fred Rahmer caught a lot of flack for pulling out of the Grandview show last year. He said, "He didn't feel comfortable". I recall reading comments he was scared to run without a wing.

However, those making comments missed one of the most impressive drives I've seen in my 30 plus years around racing. Rahmer took the Apple car from deep in the pack to a top five against the SCRA at The Grove. Frankie Kerr won that evening and Billy Pauch was second if I recall correctly.

It was interesting to watch the different styles of driving between the winged and non-winged drivers. Plus, you had non-winged drivers from both the Mid-West and West Coast. Frankly, the good winged drivers were just as fast as the non-winged driver by feature time.


On that night Rahmer managed to squeak into the feature and started about 20th. This is the night I became a Fred Rahmer fan. I used to stand in the infield near turn three at The Grove. The Apple car had sponsorship from a local Budweiser distributorship back then. Rahmer was backing the car in so hard you could read Budweiser on the right side of the car.

You've got to remember Fred is an old 358 modified king pin. On top of his 500 sprint car wins he has about 100 modified wins too. Pauch and Kerr were also tough in the modifieds and they have won with and without the wings. The modified guys are used to sliding a car and usually catch on quickly. Think of Tim McCready at the Chili Bowl.

More recently, I have seen some of the local wing guys do really will without the wings. It just takes seat time, and they run without wings so infrequently its tough to get dialed-in. They don't want to be completely out to lunch (driving style and set up). Also, I don't think many are willing or can afford to wad up a car for one or two races per year. Outside of Jesse Hockett how many non-wing guys regularly jump into a winged car and are successful? Racing is racing and I love both style and we have a non-winged car

[interpreter66]

Originally Posted by randyrad This is what we E Coast:28:'s do to pass the time during our annual rainout - http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Hage...28914673%40N02 Is this him ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/bantam10/2786014148/ photo credit - Ted Van Pelt

in the union jack sponsored car

[SUPERDUKE]

Originally Posted by randyrad this is what we e coast:28:'s do to pass the time during our annual rainout - http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=hage...28914673%40n02 is this him ? http://www.flickr.com/photos/bantam10/2786014148/ photo credit - ted van pelt

yes in a champ dirt car at hagerstown 100 lap usac race finish 3rd jack hewitt won it!