[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by Grocery Guy Why do I have to tell the world how much FLO pays the tracks? I go to races every week. I asked a simple question on what tracks FLO closed BY THEMSELVES. Gas City closed by FLO? Come on. How many races at Gas City were on FLO, besides USAC? Gas City suffered when Jerry left. Terre Haute, ask the fair board. How about some improvements at TH. Let's hope Bloomington and the new owners make simple improvements like lights and new speakers. Credit Paragon for investing in the future. How many young people are at home watching FLO? How many tracks has Dirt Vision closed?

GC was one of the tracks that didn't make a dime on Local shows and USAC sprints two or three and midgets one or two is what paid the bills. One promoter took it over and because iffy weather hit two of the USAC races the attendance was down significantly yet streamers watched it Think it was still speed shift back then Which you paid event price but the track only got a set amount. Kokomo ran it for a couple years I think and deemed it not worth continuing. Gappens took over and brought back some glory and appreciation of the fans, Boos, I think he was spread too thin trying to keep three or four tracks in operation. There were other problems like not being able to replace or add better grandstands and lack of parking and seating for bigger events.

THAT, IDK DA. USAC, Sargent,Kokomo, Spiker, Rose and The local crew that did the wall, lighting and concessions upgrades (Think they just walked away from it after they did it) enough turnover to call it healthy? I don't think so.

I go to races about every week too, But I can't travel at current time and races I'd normally make I watch on flo. and just because the track is the one holding the event I'm watching. I would expect them to be fairly compensated. It's 30 dollars (31 in THAT's case) the track is not getting from me in person plus 5-15 dollars in concessions I'd of probably spent.

[flagboy55]

One of my closest friends were there. Thankfully he missed it. Prayers to those affected

[jdull99]

Originally Posted by jonboat15 Why ask here? Why not call some tracks and ask them personally. Maybe they'll let you in on their financial dealings.

Not gona invest the time in it; what would i have to gain from it, and would they really give me honest answers?? I heard $500 (a couple of years ago) from one legit source...not USAC/WoO/High Limit tho...I'd hope more if it was from one of those...

Other #s I am curious: How many really watch each race? The article where Larson implied there would be one series (from the WoO / HL deal) one day; I believe mentioned 100,000 per race. What #s does USAC bring in (I see the 50K # mentioned on this thread...I would blv that)? Tulsa? Anything else? Post them if you got them (legit source #s).

AND; has anyone figured out: How many that find racing online; turn into ticket buyers?

[miledirt]

That's a great question. With the advent of streaming, it's an interesting question but one that probably can't be answered.

A) How many paying fans are tracks losing folks choose to just stay home and watch or watch the replay?
B) How many new fans and future on track site paying fans is streaming creating because of new visibility?

Personally, I don't believe streaming is a major factor in local tracks closing. A factor, perhaps, but not the major. Society changes is a factor. Folks just have a lot more options, things to do on a weekend night.

but for me, I believe the biggest issue is track management and poorly ran shows. Look at Kenny Dobson in Jacksonville, Il. Dude is a killer promoter. He communicates extremely well with his fans, runs a tightly ran show with not 5+ divisions running. And gets fans out by a decent reasonable hour. Now of course there are nights when things happen outside of a promoters control - weather, bad accidents, etc.

But how many times have you been to a show and watched families pick up their lil kids around 11p or after and have to leave before the promoted feature race hits the track? I've seen it countless times. The track 2,3 local division features BEFORE the promoted (let's say) the $5k to win sprint feature. Then they take "brief intermission" and end up starting the sprint feature a lil before midnight.

Dobson (Jacksonville) doesn't do that and they are doing open and doing well. Yet, I could list by name the number of tracks who did run their shows that way and they are no longer around.

Flo may be an issue. Hard to know without facts about the money. But poorly ran shows hurts more IMO

Originally Posted by brown11b I get tired of this argument. The tracks don't close because of Flo and DV. Lets take a look here in Indiana at our own case study, Gas City, since it is the latest track to fade away. The only time Gas City was on Flo was when USAC came to town. Stands, pits, and parking lots were full during those shows. Tracks need to look at streaming as an opportunity. If every time a national series comes to town and a good show is put on then maybe a few extra people may show up to a weekly show to come check the track out in person. Or maybe they will come to the next national series show in person because the last program was exciting. I am at the track every weekend possible. When I can't be at the track, I like to watch USAC on Flo and occasionally High Limit. Some times I am at the track and still watch USAC at another track on my phone from the pits when I can. I also will occasionally watch NARC stuff when I am up too late. That isn't robbing the track of a paying fan, because I am not in California, but if I do make it out there and have a free night and am close enough to a track I might check out a NARC show because I have seen the tracks and am familiar with some of the cars/drivers because of Flo. Justin Fiedler of Dirtrackr has discussed this off and on the past few years. "People have three options when it comes to consuming dirt racing. They can either go to the track, they can watch it online, or they can do nothing. If for whatever reason they first option doesn't happen, either through distance, cost, or anything else - if you give track and series people the choice would you rather those fans not at the track watched online or didn't consume the sport at all? To me the answer seems pretty clear; I'd rather they were doing absolutely anything to be involved versus nothing at all." I've included a link to the video so you can watch his discussion further. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOtO...nnel=DIRTRACKR

[jason88cubs]

Originally Posted by Vookie "Other series and tracks are dropping flo. Anderson, 500 Sprint tour and others" Maybe Flo dropped them?

500 sprint tour is on DirtVision now

[deadhorse30]

I understand everyone's concern about where the money is going, but we have to be real about this situation. Tracks were closing before Flo became such a big deal. It wasn't streaming that was hurting the business. It was the tracks themselves. I'm by no means a world traveler, but I love dirt racing and try and visit a new track every year. I've been to about 50 dirt tracks in 10 different states. I've walked out of several wondering how they stay open. Poor food, ****** bathrooms(pun intended), wasting time, etc. The tracks have been their own worst enemy forever, it's just easy to point a finger at streaming as the reason they are failing.

Charles I appreciate your passion and devotion to racing and the Burg, but you're arguing against yourself. If local racing is a money suck and the tracks need the big shows to survive(which are streamed), how is Flo killing them? That sounds like the tracks need to figure out how to make them profitable. FYI, I made my firt trip to the Burg this summer. Excellent race track.

As for as streaming helping racing, I'm one that thinks it does. I have visited several tracks because of the racing that has been streamed. Hell, we're planning a trip to Oshweken this year because of the streaming they do. They stream for free on YouTube and my buddy has been watching them. Now we are heading up there. I'm sure people thought that TV would kill pro sports back in the day as well. Now it's ingrained in our culture.

In my opinion if tracks want to make money they need to create an environment where people want to be. My family is a perfect example, they have no interest in sitting in a dust bowl and having to use porta pots.

[Dale]

Originally Posted by Grocery Guy Why do I have to tell the world how much FLO pays the tracks? I go to races every week. I asked a simple question on what tracks FLO closed BY THEMSELVES. Gas City closed by FLO? Come on. How many races at Gas City were on FLO, besides USAC? Gas City suffered when Jerry left. Terre Haute, ask the fair board. How about some improvements at TH. Let's hope Bloomington and the new owners make simple improvements like lights and new speakers. Credit Paragon for investing in the future. How many young people are at home watching FLO? How many tracks has Dirt Vision closed?

Maybe Gas City was just too close to Kokomo?

[767]

I know certain tracks negotiate their pay. They are not going to give you an exact amount. From June to September, I am on the road every single week. The few weekends I am not putting on shows, I am chasing my kids to their games. Basically during this period, I will be lucky to make it to 3 races. I gladly pay for Flo to stay in the loop. I don't get to watch the races live, but atleast I get to see them. Due to my busy schedule, FLO is about all I stream. During the week I can watch LODLMS, Hilimit, and USAC. I try to watch all of the races within these 3. I will check out a few other events, but not on the regular. Being on the road, I can watch these events during downtime as well. My kids actually watch other sports on here. My son is mainly wrestling, and my daughter basketball, track, and soccer. Its great value for our family.

Now you want to complain about tracks closing, I'm going to be the first to tell you its time several of them change there policy's.
#1 Rainouts- I travel so much, the odds of me catching a rain date are slim. Most tracks are no refund. You use your ticket at rain date or another event. This right here reduces my travel. If weather is iffy, I'm not traveling more than an hour. Even if I get to use my ticket at another event, it is not going to be a high profile event. It is going to be some standard show. So now I'm pay $30 or $40 for that $10 to $15 show. No they will not let me bring in 2 or 3 people on that 1 ticket either. So if the weather is not good, I'm out. Change your policy, I have sat through several rain showers to see racing that night.

Show Flow- I do not care if you run 2 classes or 20 classes. Set your program up so that the main event feature is over by 10pm. I honestly don't care if you want to race until 2 or 3 am. Tracks need to make money, I get it. Its not hard to adjust your schedule. If I'm traveling over an hour for a show, I want the chance to get home decent.
With show flow also comes consistency. Several people have to work on Sunday. I got no problem going to a race on Saturday if I can get home at a decent time. I want to see the main feature.

Exposure- Did any of you watch the HiLimit races from Purth? The pits are wide open for paying fans. Look at Eldora big races, for an extra $10 you can upgrade to a pit pass. We need to find more ways to get the fans involved.

If you are a promoter living on the concession stand, you really need to work on your on track program. You are shooting yourself in the foot. I promote shows all over. You have a 2 hour window on the bulk of PEOPLE. I did not say fans, I SAID PEOPLE! Your hard core fans are going to be there weekly no matter what. It's the occasional fan that really spikes your profit. Like I said you can race all night with the filler stuff. Get these fans in and out, and they will return much more often.

[opnwhlmnd]

Most interesting part of this thread.

Most of the anti-streaming FLO is killing tracks people ... wait for it ... subscribe to FLO.

[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by opnwhlmnd Most interesting part of this thread. Most of the anti-streaming FLO is killing tracks people ... wait for it ... subscribe to FLO.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

And I have stayed home from traveling over a hour when I could watch it anyway when the weather was iffy a time or two.

The facts are. There's more higher paying races (Mostly Flo nights, Lucas and HL). Usac has some more higher paying shows and some incentives like winning all three championships is big $$ in a season.

The question was weather it's hurting, helping or neither to the tracks?

I look at a track like Florence which was always LM feature by ten, well run show. used to have a killer fan base and Super LM's almost every weekend. Now runs Supers four weekends a year and sometimes the crowds not that big.

My guess is people are getting pickier on what shows they'll go to and watch the rest streamed cause they can see em anyway.