And the same with Scott's point...the local 410 wing race rules are a byproduct of the Outlaws, All Stars and ASCS rulebooks. That is because the teams that race with these organizations on a continual basis sell their used parts to local racers who can get quite a bit of life out of the parts. The teams competiting at the top levels cannot take a chance with a part failure costing them a race win/championship and are therefore willing to sell the parts at a price which provides value to the smaller/local teams. The same goes for cutting edge technology. The engines he cited in his post would be one example.

My father has stated repeatedly that when the financial pain and sacrifice he makes exceeds the enjoyment and satisfaction he receives from competing at the national level it will be time to move on. We moved up to Indy cars in the '70s and moved back down to sprint cars in the '80s because we could not afford to compete at that level.

How is it special if everyone that desires to own and race a midget at the USAC level can because it is now affordable? Again, I do agree that cost to compete drives down car counts but you seem to be demanding that the costs should be adjusted to your "threshold of financial pain". At what point of controlling costs will you be satisfied?

Lastly, promoters and sanctioning organizations have little reason to change the status quo when they can get the car counts they had at Turkey Night (64 cars) and Indiana Midget Week (46 average). As you demonstrated in the first post on this thread, people have been warning against the high costs of racing for years and predicting the overall demise if something is not done to control costs. But yet all of us idiots somehow soldier on despite the help or lack thereof of our "financial advisers".

Rob Hoffman

Which parts of the rule book are we questioning? What do we want to change to make it better?

Just because they use USAC's rules, that doesn't mean the cars and teams are USAC caliber. Pretty much all of the clubs vary the rules slightly. For the most part;IMO, USAC has a great rule book. I don't know any club that follows their rules to the letter, not even USAC.

As far as engine rules go; to me they could always be looked at, but just because something is initially cheaper, that doesn't mean it's cheaper in the long run.

Honestly, lets say someone decides to run the ASCS series. The motor is going to be $7500-$10,000. With the way the motor program is proposed to work, you should probably have two motors to make sure you don't miss a race. Even if you have a minor internal problem, the motor will have to be sent back and it will take time to get it back. Now that is $15,000-$20,000 and it is cheaper than the national motors, but it's still a hassle and one thing I know about racers is that they don't like to be told how, when ,or where. Telling them they can't just makes them want to show you they can.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for cheaper and I am for affordable, but sometimes what things seem to be and what they are can be two different things.

If someone came up with a program that had $10,000 motors and we still ran for the purses we had today and we cut back on the amount of pavement tires we need as well, that's fine with me, but there will be alot of very expensive boat anchors that won't please many people at all when they have to sell them for pennies on the dollar.

UH..... when was the last time U saw USAC check a midget engine against that rule book?

Hmmmmm...... Really quiet on here since I asked that question........

Don, I know you will find this hard to believe, but I was actually working. That and I have vowed to stay away from the computer at night.

I think USAC checks all of the race winners engines and they have been pretty diligent about weighing the cars. I have seen it done several times although I cannot remember the last time I watched them do it. At least at the National Shows.

I am assuming they are using their rule book as a guide.

Wow... You are actually working there? hahaha My car has finished in the top three at USAC National shows. Never saw anybody check my engine. Weighing yes... engine check, no. One thing for sure, there are tons of officials, but apparently checking for illegal engines is not a priority.

We've won many times and finished in the top three several times at POWRi shows. Weighing yes... engine checking no.

Sounds like the barn door is open on that rule book. Must be all about the money.

Last time I saw a midget engine checked was by BMARA at Sun Prairie around 2001.

On the other hand, at the Columbus indoor show, Barhorst's tech guys were Johnny on the spot checking cars. Not engines, but wheels, offset, tires, diapers etc etc. Not once, not twice, but several times!

Don,

I can't speak as to how many midget engines are checked as we don't have one but as I stated on here before we were checked after two of three wins this year and I believe the only reason we avoided the hat trick was two of the wins were back to back.

I would state that if you are going to write a rule you should be able to check for compliance and eliminate gray areas. I just re-read Smokey Yunick's article about NASCAR and how much fun it was to run back in the day. He stated that he refused to cheat outright except in self-defense (if NASCAR allowed everyone else to cheat a rule he would also) but that he derived the greatest joy from figuring out what the rulebook didn’t say and then exploited the loopholes.

That is what racing is all about to me. I take great pride in looking at the current USAC rulebook and being able to point to rules that had to be written because I was innovative. Almost anybody can buy parts from the various manufacturers and assemble a competitive car. But racing from my standpoint is about building a better mousetrap by being a part of a team (owner, driver, crew, sponsors and part suppliers) working towards the common goal of surpassing the competition. When all this comes together it is a most wonderful and intoxicating feeling.

So if the midget engines are not being checked or other rules not being enforced then shame on the sanctioning body. But also remember that if you are going to write a rule you should also have a way of checking for compliance that can be done easily and is not open to differing interpretations.

Rob Hoffman

Well, we agree on that.

Dick Berggren's column in OPEN WHEEL mag August 1991 says Steve Butler is right!! He doesn't agree that all his suggestions would work but points out two things that can be done to help reduce racing costs.

1. While he says that restrictor plates are a waste of time, he gives his blessing to compression rules. He's says (in 1991) that stock cars in many parts of the country have gone to a restriction of 9:1 compression. Without big compression hammering away at rods, cranks, and bearings, teams race engines hundreds, sometimes thousands, of laps more than unlimited engines. And he says it's easy to check compression without pulling the engine apart.

2. He gives his approval of running harder compound tires.

And RacinJason has made a great suggestion that midget racing go to an eight inch wheel.