MMSA Banquet

DAD · 11/8/12, 9:49 AM

Horse power 101

I have been around engines most of my life. My dad owned a large auto machine shop here in Louisville and built engine for many of the racers in the area. A race engine needs to things to be fast the ability to stay together and the ability to make Horsepower where you can use it. If you can not get the power to the track and if you can not keep the motor together the motor isn't very good.

In the modern day motorcycle you aren't going to find much power in the bottom end other than increasing the stroke of the crankshaft. The engineers decide on the bearing size at the factory, small enough as to not make too much drag and large enough to last under the loads placed on the bearing by the piston and rod.

Lightning the crank, light weight rods rods and pistons will not make much more power but it will make the engine accelerate faster. We had this problem with the 04-05 kawasaki. They made all kinds of power but they were like a 2 cycle with an expansion chamber, all off are all on. They were very hard to hook up. In the next design Kawasaki increased the crank weight by i think 6 pounds. They still had the power but they were much easier to drive.

Looking in the bottom end for horsepower increases will not yield very good results. I know for sure that stock rods can leave something to be desired for reliability, but until this year they have never been a problem. Two engine we blew this year, I hope were because of a stuck thermostat and then sticking pistons. One of the engine we blew had been raced for 4 years with just oil and filter changes, and it blew just like our 2 year old motor because we switched out the thermostats in the engine change.

Speed merchants are always looking for a sale and will recommend lightened cranks Carillo rods and maybe even ceramic bearings for the gear box. These tricks might be good for a 1 Hp increase. Then they might even suggest taking a few gear out of the gear box, but as long as there is no load on the gear it is not generating much power loss, in other words if you run in second or third gear, forth fifth and sixth are not going to be taking much power away from your engine but it will generate more money for the builder.

My fingers are starting to wear out so I think I will stop for now, but will be back later to talk about serious Horse Power.

Honest Dad himself

Bradleyracing86 · 11/8/12, 10:56 AM

I agree and dis agree dad, non wing maybe, winged no. These cars are stuck like glue, 10-20 hp is a huge deal.

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DAD · 11/8/12, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86

I agree and dis agree dad, non wing maybe, winged no. These cars are stuck like glue, 10-20 hp is a huge deal.

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Back in the day when I was younger we had Data acquisition on Doug's car and we found out that at the old round Lawrenceburg track with the 05 zx10r we were producing 25-30% wheel slip with a wing almost all the way around the track.That was when we started using Shuman or Ambrose traction control and it helped out quite a bit.

Honest Dad himself

Midget18 · 11/8/12, 1:16 PM

A stock engine can win against these "built" motors. We did it 3 times this year, almost 4. Right track conditions, driver, and set-up it can win. our "stock" engine was normally 1st or 2nd when it ran with MMSA/AMSA.

I agree it is hard to run against them but it can be done.....just my 2 cents

DAD · 11/8/12, 1:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midget18

A stock engine can win against these "built" motors. We did it 3 times this year, almost 4. Right track conditions, driver, and set-up it can win. our "stock" engine was normally 1st or 2nd when it ran with MMSA/AMSA.

I agree it is hard to run against them but it can be done.....just my 2 cents

They who get hooked up wins!!!! My 10 cents worth. Wait a go girl.

Honest Dad himself

scott bradley1x · 11/8/12, 5:22 PM

Why all this is true, I can hook up 168 hp to the ground but if you can get 186 to the ground guess what ? I'm going to outrun you. "Plain and simple" this can be done several ways with the foot method stagger and driving style so on and so fourth

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DAD · 11/8/12, 5:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott bradley1x

Why all this is true, I can hook up 168 hp to the ground but if you can get 186 to the ground guess what ? I'm going to outrun you. "Plain and simple" this can be done several ways with the foot method stagger and driving style so on and so fourth

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Yada Yada Yada what is a Horsepower? My old dyno don't even read Horsepower so I just tell everybody we are putting out around 225HP or so, sounds like a good number to me. It does however have a 5 gas analyzer on it so I can keep my A/F spot on all the way up to 14000 rpm's. When they start talking Horsepower It's kinda of like that Dyno guy,They are talking glittering bullsh!t.

Keep it clean and keep it hooked up and you will run up front with a stock motor.

Honest Dad himself

scott bradley1x · 11/8/12, 7:23 PM

This could go on for days or years. All I want to know is is it byob at the banquet or mike going to buy it

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Quantrill · 11/8/12, 7:52 PM

Dad how much more HP does it give you going from 12.4 to 14.1 compression ration?

suzuki756 · 11/8/12, 7:59 PM

You put the hardest tires on these cars left rear rt rear a minimal air pressure say 10psi easy to check on top 3 off the track then who cares what engine package you have someone with less hp will beat you easy to hook up less hp

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11/8/12, 7:52 PM	#19 Re: MMSA Banquet
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 526	Dad how much more HP does it give you going from 12.4 to 14.1 compression ration? _________________________________________________ Last edited by Quantrill; 11/8/12 at 7:55 PM.

11/8/12, 9:49 AM	#11 Re: MMSA Banquet
DAD Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 5,957	Horse power 101 I have been around engines most of my life. My dad owned a large auto machine shop here in Louisville and built engine for many of the racers in the area. A race engine needs to things to be fast the ability to stay together and the ability to make Horsepower where you can use it. If you can not get the power to the track and if you can not keep the motor together the motor isn't very good. In the modern day motorcycle you aren't going to find much power in the bottom end other than increasing the stroke of the crankshaft. The engineers decide on the bearing size at the factory, small enough as to not make too much drag and large enough to last under the loads placed on the bearing by the piston and rod. Lightning the crank, light weight rods rods and pistons will not make much more power but it will make the engine accelerate faster. We had this problem with the 04-05 kawasaki. They made all kinds of power but they were like a 2 cycle with an expansion chamber, all off are all on. They were very hard to hook up. In the next design Kawasaki increased the crank weight by i think 6 pounds. They still had the power but they were much easier to drive. Looking in the bottom end for horsepower increases will not yield very good results. I know for sure that stock rods can leave something to be desired for reliability, but until this year they have never been a problem. Two engine we blew this year, I hope were because of a stuck thermostat and then sticking pistons. One of the engine we blew had been raced for 4 years with just oil and filter changes, and it blew just like our 2 year old motor because we switched out the thermostats in the engine change. Speed merchants are always looking for a sale and will recommend lightened cranks Carillo rods and maybe even ceramic bearings for the gear box. These tricks might be good for a 1 Hp increase. Then they might even suggest taking a few gear out of the gear box, but as long as there is no load on the gear it is not generating much power loss, in other words if you run in second or third gear, forth fifth and sixth are not going to be taking much power away from your engine but it will generate more money for the builder. My fingers are starting to wear out so I think I will stop for now, but will be back later to talk about serious Horse Power. Honest Dad himself

11/8/12, 5:22 PM	#16
scott bradley1x Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 109	Why all this is true, I can hook up 168 hp to the ground but if you can get 186 to the ground guess what ? I'm going to outrun you. "Plain and simple" this can be done several ways with the foot method stagger and driving style so on and so fourth Posted via Mobile Device

11/8/12, 7:59 PM	#20
suzuki756 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 158	You put the hardest tires on these cars left rear rt rear a minimal air pressure say 10psi easy to check on top 3 off the track then who cares what engine package you have someone with less hp will beat you easy to hook up less hp Posted via Mobile Device