I've sat back and thought about this from a scientific as opposed to fan point of view. Finishing order makes a level of data ordinal by its nature. Now we assign a point value to each finishing position, which allows us to keep a points standings and award champions. The problem with this system though is we cannot compare the value of first place. We can do so in terms of winnings, but the problem with this is a driver that won 5 $2000 to win races would be equal to a driver that one 1 $10,000 to win race. We can do something based on car counts. Its a good objective measure to base a difference of points. There is still a problem because car count alone does not indicate that the win is somehow worth more. Then if you assign more points for races with a certain sanction there is still a subjective value assigned to each series. Then there is the problem of what happens for co sanctioned shows, or a WoO race at Williams Grove. What about an MSCS field that has all of the USAC regualrs?

The system that Mr. Barnhill has put up has its flaws as well simply because some of the winged drivers get to run more than non winged. Plus USAC guys have to split time between sprints, midgets and silvercrown cars. So while it is flawed, I do believe that he does have the most objective system simply because of the sort of data we're dealing with.

[QUOTE=ebarnhill;44997]Before my "joke" of a system gets put down any further, please let me explain a few things.


OK Eric. I'm sorry for calling your list a joke. I'm sure you have put a lot of work and thought into it and it makes sense to you. However, when you publish a list of the top 410 sprint car drivers and expect a bunch of hoosiers to buy off on a wing guy topping Stanbrough and Jones....well, you have to expect some snickering. So, I take back the joke part and will just say I disagree. I don't keep stats so I couldn't argue the point.:respect:

Ha, no offense Al....like I said, I started doing it to occupy my mind more than to please anybody. It's also not real fair to someone like a Shuman or Hockett who fill the gaps in their schedules by winning 360 and midget races and not getting points for them.

I don't believe a person or group could ever try to rank wing and non-wing drivers together without an argument from somebody. Guess that's part of life.

Have fun
Barnhill

So lets ask this question, Why are winged and non winged even in the same catagory?

For Rahmer to come here and race under our conditons to beat Stanbrough would be just as tough as Jon to strap on a wing and beat him there.

Chuck, not saying one's better than the other. Im clearly NW partial but like others said, Shatz virtually owned the winged world last year and is consistantly at the front not just in PA but across the nation.

I swore off posting on IOW but I've decided to make an exception on this one. For someone with a lot of time on their hands and an exceptional excel user you might be able to come up with a points system similar to one that was used by the now defunct Shifterkart Illustrated magazine.

Way back in the day when I raced karts one of the mags ranked the top 50 guys in the country. The system assigned a base score for each race. Thus a local race was not ranked as high as a regional or national etc. There was also a multiplier for car count, another multiplier for number of drivers in the top 50 in attendance at a race, and each driver was allowed their top certain number of scores to equalize those that didnt race as much. It was a pretty neat system. If i recall it may have even had some multiplier that weighted current results over past results slightly.

Barnhill as you have already put something together, if you are bored at your top secret job and want to look into it further get ahold of Rob Howden who I think now runs Eformula Car news, and Formula Car magazine or something like that. He could probably tell you how the formula works or direct you to someone who does know. Then i would be a matter of adapting all the numbers to fit the sprint car community.

For those of you who arent familar with Ebarnhill he might be one of the hardest core racers ive met. This guy fields a car affectionally known at times as the "nuthin special" with regards to the amount of finances that can be spent. And despite having to scrape scrounge and make do Eric is doing it his way and winning more races than a lot of guys with many times more money...oh yeah and sometimes he beats them on their own scuffed tires.

Shouldn't Rahmer be automatically docked for not having the sack to compete without a wing when he said he was going to?

Just kidding...

DM

I'd also dock Rahmer five points for each brake checking incident he caused at Lincoln this year but I'd be worried about a negative points net result afterward. :angry-smiley-007:

+50 points for wingless action in general. An additional +20 points for any driver that also does double duty in the same night in another wingless division like Midgets or Silver Crown.

what ever happened to this ranking deal no updates?

Not that it really matters but i know I ran more than 6 times this year and made more than 2 features lol

sorry everybody. As some of you know, my job took me to both Iraq and Afghanistan this year. While in Iraq, I was still able to keep up with the points, but when I deployed to Afghanistan in late July, I did not have the necessary resources to continue updating the points.

I apologize. I shouldn't have started something I couldn't finish. Take it easy.

Eric Barnhill