[Mulvaney]

i am new to the race scene but i have had my share of dissapointments from the name mini sprint. i had a truck that i had purchased from north carolina put several thousand dollars in and then decided i wanted to race. with out doing a whole lot of searching i just found out the basic rules 1000 cc or less chain drive things like that and took others advice and traded my truck for my first mini sprint. two weeks later i show up only to be turned away. i had purchased a damn sidewinder. long story short i thought i was getting a great deal on a 4500 mini and turned out i lost bad. i do like the name mini sprint but it seems like there needs to be a better definition to "mini sprint"

[DAD]

We started the mini sprint thing in Indianaback in the 80's, so perhaps it is ingrained in or minds a little stronger. Most of your groups came along later like about 5 years ago when this guy was was calling for a change. You can probably find his post on IOW. I am just saying he got it wrong too. Can you name me one thing on your car that came from a sprint car? We are very closley related to a full midget. We could race midgets and the crowd would not know the difference. However if we got on a track with sprint cars we would stand out like T%$#@ in the punch bowl.

Mini really doesn't bother me I have been using the word for most of 20 years now and it makes sense to me. Now LIGHTNING what the hell does that apply to. The sad part of it is people have also been looking for a replacement name for MIDGETS. In my eyes they are the ultimate race car bar none. Any one who is an open wheel racer would probably testify to that. Put 20 of those things on a 1/4 mile track and the good cars and drivers rapidly come to the top. Racing 1/4 midgets make kids better drivers and racing midgets make adults better racers. I think mini sprints has a place there also.

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by DAD Can you name me one thing on your car that came from a sprint car? We are very closley related to a full midget. We could race midgets and the crowd would not know the difference. . Now LIGHTNING what the hell does that apply to.

DAD did you read my post.."You are very right on having a uniformed name. I personally like Modified Midgets but so many TRUE mini sprints series have changed to Lightning Sprints in the past 2 years, not only in the USA but also in Australia and New Zealand so Lighning has worked for me. This is something that I will be bring up at the promoters workshop in Orlando at the PRI show in Dec....Damn good write up and hope it does not fall on death ears Dad!!!!!!

[DAD]

BC22 your name makes sense to me. I think on the east coast they put wing on their midgets and race.

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by DAD BC22 your name makes sense to me. I think on the east coast they put wing on their midgets and race.

Then what do you call them with the wing removed?

---------- Post added at 09:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:19 PM ----------

Originally Posted by bc22 i've always called them "winged midgets"

[Colin25]

Originally Posted by DAD That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Lightning, mini sprint people have been fighting this name thing for 25 years now. Mini describes something small and that doesn't do justice to what our cars of capable of on the race track. Lightning means fast. My idea of Lightning fast is a 410 sprint at Winchester that is Scary lightning fast, that we are not. So what would be a good name for us to use? I was talking with "AJ" Felker last winter and he told me that he had measured things out between one of our cars and a sprint car sitting in his shop and that we were exactly 3/4 the size of a sprint car. Maybe we could be Three quarter sprint cars but somebody is already using Three Quarter to describe there class and after all a midget is also Three Quarters the size of a sprint car. So I'm Still looking for a name. I grew up in the 50's. Back then a 3/4 midget was Three fourth the size of a midget with little bitty 10 inch wheels and tires and short wheel base. I watched them run with us the other night and now it's more like 7/8 midget to be correct. With the 13" wheels and longer wheelbase and cage I could hardly tell the difference between them and us, and I know the people in the stands didn't know. Looking back after the midget's we invented with the TQ midget to be a cheaper form of racing than the expensive Offy powered Full midget. They were 3/4 th the size of the "full" midget, thats what we called them back then "full" meaning they were the real deal. The TQ's used old Harley Davidsons cut in half and Crosley's for power back then. They used the Crosleys until there were no more Crosley's to be used a full 25 or 30 years after the last crosley was ever built. Then they found out the old outboard motor's built in Germany worked real good, In fact too good so they had to do away with them for the good of the sport. In about 1976 or so they found the good old Honda 750 motor and I guess that has been the motor of choice up until just a few years ago. Then came the Micro midget they were even smaller than the TQ's and used the old General Jumbo Jr. tires that were even smaller than the TQ tires. The motor of choice in them was the 20 cubic inch Cushman. I raced them and let me tell you they were fast, or at least I thought so. After the micro midgets came the 1/2 and 1/4 midgets powered by the old "Continental Red Seal" engine's taken from old army surplus tent heater's. Back in the late 80's Somebody got the idea that if you took one of the new Jap 1200 cc or even a 600cc motorcycle engines and put it in a midget frame you could make a neat race car. If you put a wing on them they looked just like one of them new "winged outlaw sprint cars" That had just started getting popular but smaller. So I guess they said lets call them "mini outlaw sprint cars". Back then we also had the mini skirt and they were "cool" but as anything in womens designs were dated. So here we sit with a neat race car with a dated name. About 5 years ago an old guy up in Ohio wanted to race midgets and Mini sprints together. At the time he said mini was a bad name and perhaps lightning sprint would be a better name for us. I can't think of his name but I think Lyn Ambrose won the race in a 600 cc car. Now half of us are "Mini" and the other half of us are "Lightning" sprints. I think we are anything but "SPRINT". If you wanted to race with us first you would need to buy buy a frame. That could be either a used midget frame or a special mini sprint frame that has a top rail 1/8" smaller than a midget. Then you would buy a front axil and spindles the same thing as a midget, next wheels and Tires that right also midget items. You go to our shock guy and buy midget shocks valved for a lighter car. The rear axil is the same as a midget except it doesn't have a center section with it. We use a chain drive because we can hook up our engine easier. WE buy a tail tank and body again from a midget, can you see where I'm going with this. We chose the wrong last name. We should be "midget" instead of "sprint". If we did use a sprint frame then maybe with the help of oxygen I could race too. In the last several years we have been playing with the idea of removing our wing's and racing naturally as "God" intended us to. Now would also be a good time to get our name more in tune with who we are and what we are doing. We are in fact a midget framed race car powered either by a 600, 1000 or 1200 cc motorcycle engine. We are capable of reaching speeds close to that of a "full" midget because our engines are on the cutting edge of technology a full 20 years ahead of the old pinto and chevyII motors. When we look back the micro midget almost died out because lack old the old Cushman motors to race and the expense of the newer motorcross motors to keep up and running, but the 600cc bike motors gave them new life also in the form of the 600 cc sidewinder "mini sprint", so now we have 600 cc upright 600 cc sidewinder and 1000 or 1200 cc upright mini sprints. We need a new name. The name midget is used in several classes, beginning with 1/4 and half midget, micro midgets, TQ midgets, Kenyon Midgets, Focus midgets, Echo-tec midgets and my favorite the "Full" midget. They either denote the size of the race car as compared to a "full" midget or the type of power plant that is used to power them, when they share the same frame as a midget. It makes sense to me to call our cars "crotch rocket midget", or "pocket rocket midgets" after the type of motor we use to power them. We might even use the term "Liter midget" or "1000 cc midget" or "1200cc" midget". Any of the above makes more sense to me than "mini sprint". We really have very little in common with a sprint car other than the fact that most of us, and some of the sprint cars use wings to race with. We do share a lot with the "Full midget" except for cost of racing.

What's up with this. I've never heard you say so much! Ha ha.
The only thing about the the name is hearing people say "Oh "Mini Sprinit" aren't those go-karts." Different name would be nice but no suggestions. Look forward to seeing all back home soon.

[DAD]

In my minds eye say LIGHTNING SPRINT I can see a sprint car with one hell of a motor in it. When I hear 1000cc midget I see a midget racer with a 1000 cc motor in it. If I hear WINGED 1000cc MIDGET that is eactly what I see. Ihave heard the word midget for damn near 60 years now and I still like the sound of it because I know exactly what the hell it is.


I AM JUST TRYING TO GET PEOPLE THINKING!

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by DAD In my minds eye say LIGHTNING SPRINT I can see a sprint car with one hell of a motor in it. When I hear 1000cc midget I see a midget racer with a 1000 cc motor in it. If I hear WINGED 1000cc MIDGET that is eactly what I see. Ihave heard the word midget for damn near 60 years now and I still like the sound of it because I know exactly what the hell it is. I AM JUST TRYING TO GET PEOPLE THINKING!

I hear ya loud Dad that is why I like the name "Modified Midget"... here in Florida when people the less then average fan when asked "less go see a mini ____ race"... "oh I don't wana go watch them go kart things"...all they hear is the word MINI, but that is here in Florida....or MIDGET...What year is the MGB's...so as I said Lightning Sprint works for here cause so many other series have adapted...but I know where you are coming from...Wayne

[mscs20]

[QUOTE=Papa Outlaw;257611]Hey Dad I agree with most of what you said the only issue is change...If every organization in the nation would adapt a national rules package and name all at one time problem solved...like that is gonna happen....I like the midget part...anything to get away from the word MINI....there is only 1 organization in the nation that uses the word midget to discribe our cars and that is http://azmodifiedmidget.com/site/....Which I do like, but the nation and the general public know these cars as mini sprint then again as Bob has said 250/270 are micro sprints and some organizations with 600's are call micros and some mini...hell even I get confused who to send stuff out to for the winternationals...again as Bob quotes:"micros and sidewinder600 have 10" tires and wheels and the minis have 13" wheels and tires" most is true but here in Florida the FMSA (Florida Mini Sprint Association) run 10" and 750's.

You are very right on having a uniformed name. I personally like Modified Midgets but so many TRUE mini sprints series have changed to Lightning Sprints in the past 2 years, not only in the USA but also in Australia and New Zealand so Lighning has worked for me. This is something that I will be bring up at the promoters workshop in Orlando at the PRI show in Dec....Damn good write up and hope it does not fall on death ears Dad!!!!!![COLOR="Black"]


Charleston IL still goes by Coles County Modified Midget Association (CCMMA). They run Jr sprints thru 600's. Side mounted engines or upright, it's your choice. Though the track was est. in 1956, it did start out as micro midgets until it joined the now defunked NMMA.
The sidewinders or side mounted engines seem to come around on the 125 and 250 classes in the latter 70's.
For you history nuts, look in your collection of Open Wheel mags from the first year, not sure which issue, and there was a story and pics of a so called mini sprint club in MN that ran snowmobile engines in them....clutch and belt drive to a jack shaft.......way before Doemelt, Bailey, EMC, and Competition Welding started building the 1000+cc cars of the late 80's.

Since they are bike engines why not "Moto-Sprints" or better yet "Moto-Midgets".......and then we can refer to them as M&M's

Steve

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by mscs20 Since they are bike engines why not "Moto-Sprints" or better yet "Moto-Midgets".......and then we can refer to them as M&M's Steve

good one Steve...although I think we are