Paul,
Unfortunately for racing; its still the fastest way to make a million dollars.

All you have to do is start with two-million.:rolling

See what the travelers with the ASCS race for. That USAC purse is generous by contrast.

Not sure where you get your facts but the ASCS regional races do not pay that bad. Up here in ASCS SOD they pay $1300 to win, $500 for 5th, $310 for 10th and $250 to start and $100 tow money if you don't make the show. Other than $1200 on top it is the same purse as USAC.

Plus the cost for competing with ASCS is not near the cost to complete in USAC sprints or midgets. There are plenty of competitive racers with 10k motors, running used tires, and no stacker trailers. Heck Tim Norman won the ASCS SOD title using a open trailer!

As a small time micro sprint promotor, nothing huge, but finding money isn't all that damned simple. How do you raise the purse without raising anything else if you don't have sponsors. What this sport needs is an actual marketing group to go out and find sponsors, or rather than have Mopar give a "possible" 50 thousand bucks to one race, spread it over a few races and make a few bigger shows. I just use that as an example.

These guys are right though, the cost of racing is to high for what we all race for, and to say that we'd race for peanuts doesn't really fit well, because with that mentality nothing will ever change. But its also some of our responsibility too to provide a good avenue for a sponsor to get exposure. If we race and look like a bunch of hillbilly idiots, who would want to sponsor that, if our racetracks are dirty, trash not taken out, bathrooms not cleaned, etc... who would want to sponsor that, I sure as hell wouldn't want my businesses name on something that doesn't look professional. I think we all know what the problems are, its just a matter of finding the sponsors to make it happen.

I think it would be fantastic if an owner/driver could make a profit racing at the local, regional or even the national levels!

But has this happened since the early 60's? (if even then, I wasn't there) I'm not even sure it has EVER been profitable to own a racecar?

Name any other owner/participant sport where you can turn a profit?
I know you can't do it racing bikes! (Flat track or motocross)
I have never raced boats or airplanes, but I think those might even be worse at an investment to return ratio!

Just saw a thing the other day on the Herbst SCORE team from Vegas.
They have an investment of OVER a MILLION BUCKS in their Trophy Truck that runs the Baja 1000,
IT ONLY PAYS $6,000.00 TO WIN THAT CLASS!

And you're griping about USAC's payout? :headbang

Anyone that races, had better be racing for the love and the fun of it and don't look too close at the bottom line!
Racing is and has always been a rich mans sport, if it wasn't, there would be a HELLOFALOT more teams than there are!

This was not meant to start the usual debate of "have's" and "have-not's" or if the owner of a toter home / stacker can be taken seriously in discussion of the costs to participate in this activity.

This is a National traveling series. There are no "have-not's" ; everyone is a "have" at this level , only the depths of the deep pockets will vary.

This is about the costs of participation "after" those expensive assets have been acquired. Assets that are , in most cases possible as tied to a viable business entity for depreciation , write off , expensed , charged to advertising , etc. Obviously , a real cost exists as the tax laws do not make racing free.

The sanctioning organizations appreciate that there are those who will field a professional entry of top quality and are certainly aware of the investment required in real dollars. Privately , they may question the business sanity of the owner , but still appreciate that these folks exist to the betterment of their own purposes.

This is about 43 teams at Anderson one week and the 17 that chose not to go to North Carolina the next because of costs. ( Seventeen is a good car count for a local or USAC regional show or the starting field for a UMARA event or WOMS , etc. ).

Those are 17 teams that are staying closer to home in '08. Teams that will not travel for a few hundred dollars versus expense in the thousands. An event such as Kenly , NC makes no good sense and USAC is fortunate that 26 showed ; just ashame the event was not supported otherwise.

Forget the toter - this is about entry fees and pit passes , 8 Hoosiers , 20 gallons of Methanol , 200 gallons of diesel , 2 hotel rooms , 3 days travel for 8 people who like to eat , racing for a couple hundred bucks and having 1 event cost you $ 5 Grand.

This is about how long can this continue ? .... and by how many ? ...
and a sanctioning body powerless to change it.


Paul Gray :greenflag: www.paulgray28.com

You never answered my question though, so I will ask it again.

When has it EVER been different?
What are you using as a frame of reference?

I know for a fact it wasn't the late 70's or early 80's, the Carter years were as lean as any time in racing that I can remember.
Were the 90's that profitable for teams?

Honestly, I am not trying to argue, just get a clarification on when it has been any different?

I dont think its ever been that diff. but it has gottin a lot worse as far as how much money your spending to how much you get paid.

:usacfan wasn't right after the war that midget racing was profitable? There were even investers involved. Non racing people even. A very short time however.

people have always told me IF YOUR IN RACING TO MAKE MONEY YOU MIGHT AS WELL GET OUT....UNLESS YOU FIND YOU A SUGAR DADDY OR A BIG BIG SPONSOR:angry-smiley-007: