[767]

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 Regarding the pit pass and entry fees: I am hearing MORE AND MORE from owners and drivers at the tracks talking and OBJECTING to the scam that takes place at the back gate. Would somebody please step up and tell me what promoter has ever publicly defended this practice and gave some hard evidence of why they have to do it? I guess not!!! So all you people that are left defending some promoter doing this... you are speculating with no evidence. There are several promoters that publicly post on here and I have never read one word why this practice continues.

Don I am a promoter of fair events. We do several forms of motorsports. This year has been pretty hard on local participents and really hard on the fairs. I know several of our events lost money this year, and that was including the pit passes and entry fee's. So if we are not going to charge those fee's, then the loss would be much bigger. Thus meaning these events can not happen again. Now I do not work for the big tracks or do shows that are able to make huge amounts of money, so I do not know what there answer is for you. My response to you being a small time nobody promoter.... Drivers and owners want me to garuntee a purse for them to race to. Drivers and owners want me to prepair a track for them to race on. Drivers and owners want me to purchase saftey equipment to help them in a crash. Drivers and owners want me to have my facility up to code so that there individual insurace will be good when they race there. I am good with these demands and I follow through with these items. If I really need to I could list out MY COST for these items. Now lets look at the drivers. Now as a promoter I need to advertise who is racing to drawl the fans in to cover the expenses and your purse. How many drivers will commit 1-2 months in advance of a race? At my last show I spoke with 24 drivers the week of the event that said they were coming. 12 showed up, 4 of the 12 never spoke to me. Its no different than drivers on this very board that say they are running somewhere and never show up. Ok so at my level I can not trust the drivers for my advertising. So now I want to go a different direction. I provided everything the drivers need to race. Its race day, only 100 people show up. That money is not even enough to cover my expenses to allow you to race. Are you going to race for free since I am losing money?
1 other thing to think about. I may have 2 or 3 shows that lose money, but 1 show that makes enough money to cover the other loss. Many places oporate like this.
I normally like alot of what you have to say on here, but this is one I can not agree with from my own personal experience. sorry for being long winded.

[DonMoore10]

Well, I certainly do appreciate your response and I can feel the pain of promoting whatever events you are involved with. After reading your response it sounds like you are hanging on by a thread with the promotion business. If it's how you describe, I'm not sure that the entry fee(s) and pit pass money from the owners and drivers would make a difference in the success of the event monetary wise.

Remember that I'm not saying that the track shouldn't be selling pit passes. I'm talking about ONLY drivers and owners. These are the people that are the attractions for your event, risk their lives and equipment and deserve the respect. If the ambulance driver, water truck person, pit steward, flag person... If all those people are taking home actually cash that's more than the owners and drivers receive for their efforts.. then what's wrong with that picture? It seems to me that the entire business model that is used currently is totally a$$ backwards.

I'm wondering what is the fee paid to some of the people I've mentioned above for a nights work at the track? Could you give us some idea and compare that to what the owners/drivers take away from the event. Do the people I've mentioned above buy a pit pass? For example, the ambulance drivers? They are in the pits just like everyone else. If not, why not?

[767]

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 Well, I certainly do appreciate your response and I can feel the pain of promoting whatever events you are involved with. After reading your response it sounds like you are hanging on by a thread with the promotion business. If it's how you describe, I'm not sure that the entry fee(s) and pit pass money from the owners and drivers would make a difference in the success of the event monetary wise. Remember that I'm not saying that the track shouldn't be selling pit passes. I'm talking about ONLY drivers and owners. These are the people that are the attractions for your event, risk their lives and equipment and deserve the respect. If the ambulance driver, water truck person, pit steward, flag person... If all those people are taking how actually cash that's more than the owners and drivers receive for their efforts.. then what's wrong with that picture? It seems to me that the entire business model that is used currently is totally a$$ backwards. I'm wondering what is the fee paid tosome of the people I've mentioned above for a nights work at the track? Could you give us some idea and compare that to what the owners/drivers take away form the event. Do the people I've mentioned above buy a pit pass? for example, the ambulance drivers? They are in the pits just like everyone else. If not, why not?

Real simple safty wise (straight from the fire department I had to use): $35 per hour, per person. 3-4 on fire truck, 2 on ambulance. You figure most race tracks go from 5-11. to have coverage for 6 hours $1260. No matter what type of show you have, you need 6-10 track workers. At $50 each thats $300-$500. A tech guy that knows what he is doing $100 to $500. Equipment is not cheap. Basically to rent a dozer, grader, or something like this, $600 per day. Looks like a motorized sheeps foot would be $400 per day. My show takes $600 to $1200 worth of equipment. Drivers run for $1000 to win normally (just an adverage).

---------- Post added at 02:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 PM ----------

Hay Don, your in the entertainment industry, so help me... How do you advertise shows these days? Most people do not get a daily news paper any more. Most listen to the radio, but normally just the main stream stations. I can not afford there time slots. Tv is more. Advertising 10-15 years ago was so much easier. Everyone got a news paper. Go to 4 or 5 surrounding papers and now you have reached majority of the population.

[DonMoore10]

So I think it is safe to assume that for most motorsports promotions many of the track personnel that are not part of the attraction for the audience take home more cash at the end of the night than the majority of the stars of the show....... which is a$$ backwards.

[Chris Nunn]

Ill help out, as a track worker myself i dont charge less than $150. price goes up the further i drive.
Posted via Mobile Device

[DonMoore10]

Originally Posted by Chris Nunn Ill help out, as a track worker myself i dont charge less than $150. price goes up the further i drive. Posted via Mobile Device

And as a car owner with a huge investment on the line and part of the show that people come to watch... the Gundakers at Tri City promoting the Gold Crown midgets nationals two years ago paid me $30 for showing up and driving 1000 miles round trip to entertain his audience and I had to call them a few times to get that. ***

---------- Post added at 04:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

767... you may want to check with Tony Barhorst regarding advertising. He's one of the few promoters left that actually advertises and tries to put people in the seats.... and pays a decent purse with the indoor racing. I have not been actively involved in the promotional end of the entertainment industry for some time. Almost all of my work currently is by word of mouth.

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 And as a car owner with a huge investment on the line and part of the show that people come to watch... the Gundakers at Tri City promoting the Gold Crown midgets nationals two years ago paid me $30 for showing up and driving 1000 miles round trip to entertain his audience and I had to call them a few times to get that. *** ---------- Post added at 04:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ---------- 767... you may want to check with Tony Barhorst regarding advertising. He's one of the few promoters left that actually advertises and tries to put people in the seats.... and pays a decent purse with the indoor racing. I have not been actively involved in the promotional end of the entertainment industry for some time. Almost all of my work currently is by word of mouth.

Off topic.

[DonMoore10]

Originally Posted by Seadog Off topic.

USSA/Don Kenyon/DK Promotions is a player in the entertainment industry, specifically promoting midget auto racing and it's related aspects.

[racefan20]

Originally Posted by seadog off topic.

[Revolution Racing]

Mr. Moore,

I'm not defending nor attacking the status quo, but rather I'm merely stating what it is. A very wise man once said "We don't need to MAKE the rules... we just need to UNDERSTAND them". Right now, today, at most short tracks, the operator needs this revenue in order for his effort to pencil out. If he does not get this revenue from current sources his choices will be to get it elsewhere, or to take a loss, or to quit this business activity.

Do we LIKE this situation? No, we don't. Would we like to see an improvement here? Yes, we would. I have to believe that if there was a way to do things the way you wish they could be done, SOMEBODY would be doing it. After all, it sure would be popular with the competitors and I don't think the fans would have a problem with it.

You kind of sound a little nuts to me, Mr. Moore....