[interpreter66]

how come the scab(quote a.m.f) didnt file for bankrupcy?

better product?
better buisness sense?

either way thier still here,i cant even find champ car on the t.v

st.pete- i went they had big crowds.nice layout alot of fun

f-the paddock i go to the pit's

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by aussiemidgetfan the irl should not have existed in the first place. it is a scab, worthless and cause the downfall of a continuous 80 year+ history of national championship racing. the only way to rescue it now is to combine the elements of the failed champ car business to do so. As such they need to: -Allow the champ car chassis and engine-increasing weight or limiting turbo boost on the engine for equivalence (because the champ car is something like 3 seconds a lap quicker on a road course, and would be at least half that on an oval) -ADD to the schedule succesful champ car races: Long Beach, Toronto, Edmonton, Cleveland, Portland, Laguna Seca, Road America -Don't bother with Surfers Paradise cause the only people who go only care about the taxis. You can forget Houston too because it is a rubbish temporary circuit (its got no tradition ala LB/TO and its not wide and open ala Edmonton/Cleveland) -Drop St Petersburg, Infineon Raceway & Watkins Glen because nobody attends them. -Get Michigan back! The Michigan/US 500 is arguably the second most significant race in US Openwheel. To neglect the past would be foolish -Combine the IPS and Formula Atlantic by making the Atlantic a tad heavier. The old Atlantic chassis was quicker than an IPS car around Milwaukee, and the new one is faster still. And call it Formula Atlantic, because that name has historical significance whereas Infiniti Pro Series/Indy Pro Series/IRL Indy Series/whatever the bloody hell else they have called it doesn't. Anything less, and I can guarantee that little more interest will develop. Champ Car fans are not interested in watching a product that is just IRL (in case you havent noticed-we haven't for 12 years. Remember the crowds at the I500 compared to the US500 in 1996?). Champ car fans won't go The problem with champ car was not the on track product, it was not the attendance at the track. It was IMHO piss poor business management, pathetic PR and rubbish television deals (they should never have gone to ABC/ESPN). and I have always thought this-Jimmy Vasser the 1996 CART/National champion learnt his oval craft in iirc 3/4 midgets and his road racing through formula atlantic. maybe other short trackers should broaden their horizons? It isn't like foreigners and right hand turns are new-they date back to the 1960s and probably earlier. Mario Andretti raced Formula Junior, Sir Jack Brabham was a succesful midget driver before taking up Euro Formula 2 and then F1, if you don't think both these elementds assisted them-you are fooling yourselves.

If only ChampCar would have hired aussiemidgetfan to run their series, they would be the number one sport in the universe right now.:rolling

If you want to know about the original "split", go back about 30 years and see who the real scabs were. Do you remember that? USAC lost 8 officials in a plane crash and some greedy people swooped in while they were at their lowest point and took advantage of them. It still upsets me to this day.

[Gregg]

Originally Posted by Seadog If you want to know about the original "split", go back about 30 years and see who the real scabs were. Do you remember that? USAC lost 8 officials in a plane crash and some greedy people swooped in while they were at their lowest point and took advantage of them. It still upsets me to this day.

Well said and true. Also the loss of Tony Hulman six months prior to the airplane crash made it even easier.

[RacinFool]

Originally Posted by aussiemidgetfan the irl should not have existed in the first place. it is a scab, worthless and cause the downfall of a continuous 80 year+ history of national championship racing. the only way to rescue it now is to combine the elements of the failed champ car business to do so. As such they need to: -Allow the champ car chassis and engine-increasing weight or limiting turbo boost on the engine for equivalence (because the champ car is something like 3 seconds a lap quicker on a road course, and would be at least half that on an oval) -ADD to the schedule succesful champ car races: Long Beach, Toronto, Edmonton, Cleveland, Portland, Laguna Seca, Road America -Don't bother with Surfers Paradise cause the only people who go only care about the taxis. You can forget Houston too because it is a rubbish temporary circuit (its got no tradition ala LB/TO and its not wide and open ala Edmonton/Cleveland) -Drop St Petersburg, Infineon Raceway & Watkins Glen because nobody attends them. -Get Michigan back! The Michigan/US 500 is arguably the second most significant race in US Openwheel. To neglect the past would be foolish -Combine the IPS and Formula Atlantic by making the Atlantic a tad heavier. The old Atlantic chassis was quicker than an IPS car around Milwaukee, and the new one is faster still. And call it Formula Atlantic, because that name has historical significance whereas Infiniti Pro Series/Indy Pro Series/IRL Indy Series/whatever the bloody hell else they have called it doesn't. Anything less, and I can guarantee that little more interest will develop. Champ Car fans are not interested in watching a product that is just IRL (in case you havent noticed-we haven't for 12 years. Remember the crowds at the I500 compared to the US500 in 1996?). Champ car fans won't go The problem with champ car was not the on track product, it was not the attendance at the track. It was IMHO piss poor business management, pathetic PR and rubbish television deals (they should never have gone to ABC/ESPN). and I have always thought this-Jimmy Vasser the 1996 CART/National champion learnt his oval craft in iirc 3/4 midgets and his road racing through formula atlantic. maybe other short trackers should broaden their horizons? It isn't like foreigners and right hand turns are new-they date back to the 1960s and probably earlier. Mario Andretti raced Formula Junior, Sir Jack Brabham was a succesful midget driver before taking up Euro Formula 2 and then F1, if you don't think both these elementds assisted them-you are fooling yourselves.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Crankin]

Originally Posted by aussiemidgetfan -ADD to the schedule succesful champ car races: Long Beach, Toronto, Edmonton, Cleveland, Portland, Laguna Seca, Road America

Other than Cleveland (and that's only because it's always good for a 1st lap, 1st corner, 12 car pile-up).. All the rest :sleep::sleep::sleep:

P.S: Well said Seadog!

[Pat O'Connor Fan]

I would hate to see the :loser: CCWS die -- their TV broadcasts assured me of quite a few good naps over the course of a season. Guaranteed to put you to sleep from sheer boredom!
Now you really must excuse me, old chaps. I must be off to having a bit of wine and cheese in the paddock, all the while holding my pinky finger aloft from my remaining digits.

[ronmil]

Originally Posted by aussiemidgetfan the irl should not have existed in the first place. it is a scab, worthless and cause the downfall of a continuous 80 year+ history of national championship racing. the only way to rescue it now is to combine the elements of the failed champ car business to do so. As such they need to: -Allow the champ car chassis and engine-increasing weight or limiting turbo boost on the engine for equivalence (because the champ car is something like 3 seconds a lap quicker on a road course, and would be at least half that on an oval) -ADD to the schedule succesful champ car races: Long Beach, Toronto, Edmonton, Cleveland, Portland, Laguna Seca, Road America -Don't bother with Surfers Paradise cause the only people who go only care about the taxis. You can forget Houston too because it is a rubbish temporary circuit (its got no tradition ala LB/TO and its not wide and open ala Edmonton/Cleveland) -Drop St Petersburg, Infineon Raceway & Watkins Glen because nobody attends them. -Get Michigan back! The Michigan/US 500 is arguably the second most significant race in US Openwheel. To neglect the past would be foolish -Combine the IPS and Formula Atlantic by making the Atlantic a tad heavier. The old Atlantic chassis was quicker than an IPS car around Milwaukee, and the new one is faster still. And call it Formula Atlantic, because that name has historical significance whereas Infiniti Pro Series/Indy Pro Series/IRL Indy Series/whatever the bloody hell else they have called it doesn't. Anything less, and I can guarantee that little more interest will develop. Champ Car fans are not interested in watching a product that is just IRL (in case you havent noticed-we haven't for 12 years. Remember the crowds at the I500 compared to the US500 in 1996?). Champ car fans won't go The problem with champ car was not the on track product, it was not the attendance at the track. It was IMHO piss poor business management, pathetic PR and rubbish television deals (they should never have gone to ABC/ESPN). and I have always thought this-Jimmy Vasser the 1996 CART/National champion learnt his oval craft in iirc 3/4 midgets and his road racing through formula atlantic. maybe other short trackers should broaden their horizons? It isn't like foreigners and right hand turns are new-they date back to the 1960s and probably earlier. Mario Andretti raced Formula Junior, Sir Jack Brabham was a succesful midget driver before taking up Euro Formula 2 and then F1, if you don't think both these elementds assisted them-you are fooling yourselves.

aussiemidgetfan,

The 1996 Indy 500 played to a full house and the only empty seats the last few years have been the less desirable ones down low in the backstretch/turn three area. There were more empty seats at the Allstate 400 this past year than the Indy 500.

[sprintcar64]

Originally Posted by Moses I'm glad that it looks as though Indy Cars will only have one series. My question though, what was solved in major open wheel racing as a result of the split? I am a huge fan of the IRL and I think the racing is fantastic. However there are still few grassroots open wheel guys getting rides, there is one engine supplier, a formulated car, more road courses, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original goal of the IRL to run on ovals, lower the costs, and give the Dave Darlands and Jay Drakes of the world a chance to run Indy Cars? I'm all for unification of open wheel racing, but what did the split solve?

The split did what exactly what TG wanted. He has complete control of Indy style racing in America. That was his one and only intent from the beginning, it just took longer than intended.

[The Frolic]

Originally Posted by sprintcar64 The split did what exactly what TG wanted. He has complete control of Indy style racing in America. That was his one and only intent from the beginning, it just took longer than intended.

Exactly, if you want to know what little was gained, that is it. You go from a group of guys pulling the series in a thousand directions to one person in control. I'm not saying that one person is going the right way...but at least he's going somewhere.

[Wolfe-e]

I think the real problem, is that both series have ran off and left there fans, and sponsors..... To make Indy Car Racing what it was will take not 1 but several Big Steps Back. A rule package that incourages individual inginuity. Give them safty rules, a weight rule, an engine displacement rule and completly do away with turbos and blowers and what not. Get the engines and cars back to were they can be developed in the small shops and garages that built the sport. The Reward for these guys use to be just the Chance to take a Car to Indy, even if there idea didnt work. Competition spawns inginuity and genius. Thats what built racing. Todays cars are designed on a computer. Not much grease under those guys finger nails, not much sweat either. With todays rules you add so much cost to things that you have to have a small, "oil rich country" behind you to compete. If you get the thing back within the realm of reason cost wise, you can run Ovals and Road courses because you'll have 50 teams again, instead of 5 or 6 with 4 drivers each. If a team is good at Ovals and not Road races, it dozent have to go, and of course thats why they will because of the competition.
I think about all Americans would like to have an American hero to root for. I'd love to see Dave Darland and Brian Tyler and several others get there chance at Indy. Who knows, maybe the guys bailing on Champ and the IRL for Nascar might end up being a good thing. If we work on making more seats here, so much of our talent won't be in such a hurry to find finders.......