This is the slippery slope that passing points create. At times the winner of the heat race isn't the winner points wise and it becomes very confusing for the most basic average fan, the one that the sport is desperately seeking out, to grasp.

Personally I would like to see all tracks qualify. Be it one or two laps, and the top 6-8 cars are locked in and run a dash to seat themselves for the feature.

I would also like to see more cars locked in from the heats, or instead run two or three "qualifier" races instead of heats and eliminate "B" mains.

Example:40 cars on hand/22 Car Feature
6 Locked in from quals./Dash for Positions/16 Spots Left
2 17 Car 15 Lap Races/8 From Each/Lined up as you Qualified/Finish determines feature line up

I realize that it isn't too different from what other series have in place and most people won't be for it, but I would like to see the format tried to see if it would work.

In my opinion,At least this way you are rewarded for qualifying, but you have to race for your positions with everything being clearly defined. The Qualifying race is more laps than a heat, but is less laps than both a heat and a B. There would also be no "Do Overs". You tear it up in your Heat and you can run the B, but tear it up in the Qualifing race and your done.

Keep in mind that my solution to the Bully problem gives the bully a second chance so that eliminates the race steward from being put on the spot. Happening twice would be the clincher for the bully.

The bully problem is now being seriously addressed in public schools across the nation. Schools are adopting policies that deal with these people.

If someone walks up to you and punches you in the face, you (the victim) certainly do not deserve to go to jail. Sending innocent racers to the tail is the same scenario. Just because it's always been done this way or that way does not make it right. This was the same attitude for years in schools. If ur involved in a fight, both parties paid a penalty. That is now being corrected and addressed.

Regarding qualifying: The next questions is: How do you qualify over 70 mini sprints such as showed up at DuQuoin. Add the midgets and over 100 cars there. With that many cars, the issue then becomes what kind of track is left after a given number qualify? Going out last could put you on the trailer quick. Just another factor to ponder.

Draw good? Thats always been a gamble in dirt racing. No way to "fix" it.

I agree with Don 100% on the "bully" rule. Once might be a mistake. Twice isn't. And Kevin has the answer to the passing point deal. Reward the guy who puts on the show.:thumb:

I personally have never really agreed with a passing points system. I do think it penalizes drivers who start up front and run up front during their heat and tends to favor people with a bad pill draw who pass cars by whatever means necessary (the bully driver that Don metioned).

If anything, it should be the top 4 finishers transfer to the A main. the rest go into the B and the top 6 transfer to the A main in the back three rows according to their finish order.

The top four from each heat who transfer redraw for their starting position.

I could live with that. That's actually a variation on my proposal with a second draw, only different circumstances.

As a Promoter I will have to add two more support classes so the scorers have time to figure this out and explain it to all the racers that think they got cheated.:doh::headbang:

As a long time and still confused fan I tend to agree with the gentleman who suggested getting rid of passing points entirely. ANYTHING the sport can do to broaden its appeal to the neopyte fan is good---(just not self starters!) And I agree 100% with Don on the "bully rule". Hey, the race officials make tough calls all the time, if the bully spins somebody twice I don't see that as too subjective a call. I guess there may be a downside for a clean but agressive driver (the ones we love to watch) who gets into a slowing car once unavoidably and then gets the warning. Would that driver then go thru the rest of the race way too conservatively?

I used the system that Kirk came up with (9 point difference between finishing position; 4 points for every position improved) and he eliminated a lot of the ties. The ones that are still there are obviously drivers who do the same thing (start 5th and finish 3rd, etc.) but also drivers who do not improve their position or drivers who move backwards.

If you have 5 heats races that are all won by the driver that started on the pole they will all be tied in points.

If you have 5 heat races and 3rd place finishers start either 1st, 2nd or 3rd they will also be tied in points.

If you go back to the original draw to determine the tiebreaker the drivers that start in the front of the heats would have the tiebreaker advantage, and Heat 1 would still have the advantage over Heat 4. Because that's the way the draw works to make the original lineups.

You have 40 cars to run 5 heats and they each draw a pill 1-40. The heats would be lined up this way by draw:

Heat 1: 1-6-11-16-21-26-31-36
Heat 2: 2-7-12-17-22-27-32-37
Heat 3: 3-8-13-18-23-28-33-38
Heat 4: 4-9-14-19-24-29-34-39
Heat 5: 5-10-15-20-25-30-35-40

My opinions on passing point systems:

1. Reward drivers more for where they finished not how many cars they passed. Every driver has the opportunity to win a heat race. Every driver does not have the opportunity to pass 7 cars.

2. No matter what point system you use a driver that wins his heat needs to transfer directly to the feature. A driver that starts 9th in a heat & finishes 5th should never make more points than a driver that starts on the pole & wins his heat.

If anyone thinks the system needs to be changed a little research needs to be done first. You need the heat lineups and finishes of all of the passing points races USAC has had for the last 2 years. Run a comparison of the existing system and tiebreakers and any others proposed. Then take a look at the data and make sure what you thought was going to happen really happens.

If anyone has the heat lineups and a proposed system I'll volunteer to put it all together for you.

Sandy