I called Kevin when I first saw this post and told him this would be a perfect opportunity for him to share some of the things we had talked about just a few days before. What I was telling him was that Kenny was one of the few young drivers that did not have the ultimate goal of racing NASCAR. He just wants to be a sprint car driver, and that an ultimate goal for him would just to find a team to put him in their car, not to make a living at it, just to have the chance to have the equipment to do it right.

Unfortunately with the costs involved verses the payout, you can't really blame the car owners for doing what they do and putting the people in their cars that they do. It's hard to justify putting say... Dave Darland in their car and paying him whatever percentage of the winnings, rather than putting in another driver who can pay enough that they'll make money win lose or crash. There are still some owners putting drivers in their cars based on talent instead of money brought to the table, but they are few and far between, and in danger of extinction simply because the purses are such that it's not possible to make enough to even cover expenses, and take care of the equipment. They have to really be in love with the sport and have the desire to spend their own money to see their car race. By the way, I don't begrudge anyone for having the money to buy a ride because if I had it I would do the same thing.

I for one did not realize how much better the winged racing pays and thought maybe others would be interested in what Kevin was telling me about that. He knows what he's talking about and has a lot of passion about the survival of the sport and the racers. We all need to listen to what he is saying.

Trent Niflis

Excellent post...especially Kevin's answer. It brings questions to my mind...why does wing racing pay so much more? Where is the money coming from? Sponsors? More fans paying higher admission fees?

The only answer I can come up with for this is "exposure". Where I'm located the only sprint car racing to be seen is winged. It's so far from either hotbed of real sprint car racing that it's difficult to get anyone here interested. So, the sponsors stay with wings. Wings are also a huge billboard for the sponsors. Again, exposure for the sponsor.

When the fans don't get exposed to what they're missing, things stay as they are. There is still a feeling, also, that winged cars are safer. I don't know if the stats for the last 10 years or so will uphold that theory, but it's still felt that it's safer to race with a wing, so it's difficult to persuade folks to the contrary, even when the racing is better.

Tim Simmons

Kevin
Good answer. Just wondering, is the cost difference in running a wing car verses a non-wing car, in direct correlation to the purse structures? Thanks in advance..............


PS...........Rembering you running the Stannard car years ago..............Yes I go back a few years also.........

Most local wing shows do not pay anymore money than Lawrenceburg's $1200/1500 to win, and $150/200 to start the feature.

But IMO, Indiana is a special case, and some of the tracks pay a smaller purse because they can do so and still draw a reaonable(20-25) amount of cars to put on a decent show. There are a lot of n/w tracks in Indiana, and it can serve to dilute the product a bit...but, as I said, that's just my opinion....

@Rp1racing: It does cost more money to run a wing car. I posted this to help motivate young drivers to realize that it is tough to make a living driving a sprint car. If you want to make a living driving a sprint car you pretty well better go run the wings as a driver. As a car owner you are going to lose your rear end if you run wing or non winged without sponsorship help. It cost a lot of money to run a car either way. The car owners are always going to be the big losers. But this post was asking about drivers making a living and I was just trying to show it is just about impossible unless you have a job on the side.

As far as why wings pay more is the car owners and drivers won't show up for less so the promoters and sanctioning bodies have to pay it. The reason we don't get it is because we still show up lol. Car counts are not an issue and talent at the track is not an issue so until the racers quit showing up it will never change, just the facts. I do not begrudge any promoter or sanctioning body for making as much money as they can, that is what they are in business for. I don't know if this is true or not because I have not researched it but just word of mouth. So if anyone knows the facts please correct me. But Guy Webb who own's the All Stars told me at Paragon that the purse for the 10,000 to win hoosier fall classic at Lawrenceburg was almost double the MSCS 10,000 to win show there. Which means 2nd on back really pays a lot more. I do not know what USAC'S 10,000 purse is but I imagine it is in the middle of the two. But what I would like is someone who is not affiliated with the track or sanctioning bodies that goes to both events give an estimate which event has a bigger crowd. I know the non wing events will have more cars. So if the fan counts are the same well then we all know the answer. But if the crowd is smaller for the non wing then we know why our purses are smaller. I know that I will probably get bashed but hey the truth is the truth. Like I said the reason there is a difference is they don't have to pay us more. Do you really think they would still be having wing shows if the promoters were all losing money? All they have to do is give us a little and it would make a huge difference. I have a lot of friends that race all over and tell me that our crowds and car counts are as strong as you can get right here in Indiana but we have the lowest purses.

---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM ----------

@ sprinter25 local wing shows in Ohio I think are min. 2,500 to win 300 to start. Penn. Knoxville and California all pay more than that I believe. I don't know but I think the main ASCS 360 deal pays 5,000 to win 500 to start. Now if you can promote that you should be able to promote non wing racing lol.

Fremont pays $2500 to win, $250 to start, Attica is $2200 to win, $225 to start, KC is $2500 to win, not sure about start, and Skyline is $1500 to win. The 4 big wing tracks in Ohio still pay better than any non-wing track in Indiana. Doesn't make sense to me.

@slide22 Thanks I wasn't positive but I thought they paid 2,500 over there. I know one of the neat things over there Attica and Fremont pay a big point fund between the two tracks. They combine both tracks for a champion that pays really well I hear.

I also checked to see if there was a difference in gate admission for the Hoosier Fall Classic compared to the MSCS and USAC 10,000 and they are the same. $25.00 grandstand and $35.00 pit pass. I thought that may be where the difference may be at, but it is the same. I am pretty sure that it cost more to get into a WOO show though.

All,
I did not start this thread to bash any organizations or anyone affiliated with them. The biggest question I had was how do these young guys compete 3-4 nights a week on a limited income. I try to support as much as possible by attending shows, buying shirts , joining fan clubs, etc....

I think we as fans would attend if these were ran for a $10 purse and some drivers would show up just for the competition. I cannot begin to think that these winged shows can pay so much more than our beloved non-wing! I will say that the crowd at TSS this past weekend was as big as the day the WoO were there. Yes the tickets cost $35 a piece for that show but you see the point.

I think that we all have grown so used "the way things have been" or "this is how it has always been" that we fail to realize these purses are ridiculous. I will never downgrade a promoter or a track owner but when I see your track lined with sponsors, push trucks or equipment lined with sponsors and your announcer constantly calls out these sponsors then you have plenty of money to give back to the people who make the race (THE DRIVERS!).

I love motor sports period, but nothing I have ever watched has amazed me like a non-wing sprint car and the competition it puts on the track. I wish something could be done to make these purses climb, car counts return to the glory days but I do not see it happening.

I thank everyone for their posts regarding this!

JW

I just wanted to also state that I am in no way bashing the promoters or sanctioning bodies as well. I am just stating my opinion and answering questions. Anyone that know's me know's when you ask me a question you get my my honest answer, no beating around the bush, like a Jack Hewitt approach. Like I said earlier the promoters are only being good business men. That is what they are in business for to make every dime they can. How can you blame anyone for running there business the right way. I for one can see in the future that things will change for them though if they don't stop and see what is coming ahead. Please no one take offense to what I am going to say. I do not begrudge anyone for having more than I and would spend my money for my son to race with the best I could afford. But here is what scares me, the future. Where is the next Dave Darland, Jon Stanbrough, Jack Hewitt and so on going to come from. How many guys are really getting in to this sport to race sprint cars? Please anyone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe very few. I believe that if most of the drivers of todays youth movement do not make it to either NASCAR or IRL by the time they are 21 that most of them will be done with sprint cars. We have already lost Hockett, Clayton, and Hessert. I decided not to use names but you can fill them in how many of the dad's do you really think that will keep funding sprint cars spending 100s of thousands of dollars a year for there kid just to run sprint cars. Once the dream of NASCAR is over they are gone. We all know that the kid will probably want to stay and drive but where are they gonna find a ride. Dickie Gaines a proven winner and has had a hard time just finding a ride. There are really only a few rides out there. Now we hear that Stewart is scaling back to a 1 car team and Kahne is down to Sweet and they are running just as much wing as non wing. So what teams out there are hiring drivers the Hoffmans, Stewart, Kahne, Fox, Eddison, Gorbic, Dallas Mullvaney, Pottorff, Hurst, Tate, Benic, Hazen, Truckers and I know I am missing a few but that is not very many teams paying drivers to drive. I am telling you if we do not watch out down the road it is only going to be a driver development series with no veterans to compare them to. I may be way off base but this is just my opinion. You do have guys that just want to race sprint cars and that is all they want to do. But they are the ones that have a hard time getting the rides that are available. Look at Scotty Weir he will drive the wheels off a car and would love probably to make a career out of this but has struggled just go get a ride. Until purses go up where car owners can afford to hire drivers we are not going to see this problem change. Also for teams like the Niflis's until purses go up how long can they hang on? Not very long the cost keeps going up but the money keeps staying the same. I said it a few years ago and I will say it again it will catch up to us I just hope that the promoters and sanctioning bodies are smart enough to start now and try to take care of the problem instead of waiting until it happens. I only say these things because I love sprint car racing and i want to see it succeed to me this has got to happen for it to suceed in the future. The only other alternative is to lower the cost but you still have not fixed how the drivers can make a living when you do that. Best case scenario increase purse and lower the cost.