[LEADERS EDGE]

Didn't USAC basically run the Focus Tires on pavement a few years ago? Smaller/Narrower

[DonMoore10]

Originally Posted by jason "I don't know about you, but just about everybody that has investments has lost about half of their account balance to the economic downturn. So.. The new tire policy... What's in it for me to get excited about? Well... Not a whole lot that I can see. Don, don't compare a race car with an investment. That would be like me getting upset when they come out with a new set of golf clubs and obsolete old technology Maybe I'm missing something, but If I'm still going to pay $140-180 for tires, regardless of brand, isn't this kind of like somebody telling you that you've won the lottery and you're going to get $10 back? Or ...maybe $5? How much money am I gonna save for an evening of midget racing with this new tire policy? Well.. It didn't say in the press release that I read. So have we accomplished anything? If the tire prices haven't changed, with the exception of running, maybe, fewer tires for the evening, Don, listent to what you just said - fewer tires for the evening! You have answered your own question. what is the gain?" Don, it is evident that unless placed on the board of directors of the sanctioning body that you would like to race with and are given full reign on rules that you simply won't be happy running about anywhere.

The midget web site that I went to says nothing about running other tires for hot laps, heat races or semi features. That could be a potential of three other sets of tires. Do your research.

Yeah... You got one thing right. I and others who have huge investments in midget racing won't be happy until some common sense returns to the sport. You should be glad people like me are still around as car owners. Most of them only stick around for a year or two. Maybe it's because they read posts like yours that incinuate that owners should get out of the racing business if they don't like some of the rules. Are you packing up and leaving the country because you don't like the way the government runs things? Do you search the internet for the most expensive flight when you want to go somewhere? Follow in the footsteps of a midget owner for a couple of weeks and shell out all the expense from your own pocket and come back and tell me about it. I don't get it.

[DonMoore10]

Originally Posted by LEADERS EDGE Didn't USAC basically run the Focus Tires on pavement a few years ago? Smaller/Narrower

I do know one thing. If there were a concerted effort to solve the tire expense issue, it would take only an inexpensive few hours at a dirt track testing various combinations of wheels, tire sizes and compounds and brands. That would stop all the speculation once and for all that I read on here about the results.

The first national midget race I saw was back in 1959 at Canfield Speedway in Ohio. It was a 100 lapper won by Johnny Parson, Sr... the racing was thrilling from beginning to end, no one flipped, and they all ran on ultra skinny tires.... and I wasn't pelted with dirt and there wasn't a huge dust storm. I'm not campaigning to return to 1959, but the greed is way out of control today.

[jason]

Don - just as you implore others to do, I would ask that you read the threads you participate in:

Midget car owner here from 2004-06 - two championships with WOMS and decided to get out because I was a high school teacher footing the bill for a midget team totally out of my own pocket - and realized, at the time, that to make the "next step" forward was going to cost too much. No harm no foul. I don't get on here ranting and raving about how the cost of midget racing drove me from the sport. I merely took a job as a tech official with ARCA at both Toledo Speedway and Flat Rock Speedway so that I could continue to participate in the sport I love. (By the way, this also allows me to have a better understanding of racing from all perspectives - from mechanic on a silver crown team, a tire engineer for an indycar team, a tire buster for Goodyear racing, to that of a race promoter as I ran a racing series for 10 years and promoted races from Michigan to Tennessee - I hope thats enough experience for you)

What you don't seem to realize is that racing in ALL forms has changed. You can sit here and say that people should do this or that, but the perfect storm of increased costs for the cars, higher expenses for competing, and dwindling gate receipts, mean that it is what it is right now for ALL forms of racing. I encouraged NO ONE to leave the sport, but to imply that your "racing investment" should give a suitable return is basically ludicrous - its not happening in your lifetime Don. That race car in your garage is no different than a shiny new bowling ball or a bass boat sitting next to that garage.

So, to paraphrase - please don't tell me to walk in your shoes - I have. And I knew enough to get out of them when they didn't fit any more.

[DonMoore10]

Originally Posted by jason Don - just as you implore others to do, I would ask that you read the threads you participate in: Midget car owner here from 2004-06 - two championships with WOMS and decided to get out because I was a high school teacher footing the bill for a midget team totally out of my own pocket - and realized, at the time, that to make the "next step" forward was going to cost too much. No harm no foul. I don't get on here ranting and raving about how the cost of midget racing drove me from the sport. I merely took a job as a tech official with ARCA at both Toledo Speedway and Flat Rock Speedway so that I could continue to participate in the sport I love. (By the way, this also allows me to have a better understanding of racing from all perspectives - from mechanic on a silver crown team, a tire engineer for an indycar team, a tire buster for Goodyear racing, to that of a race promoter as I ran a racing series for 10 years and promoted races from Michigan to Tennessee - I hope thats enough experience for you) What you don't seem to realize is that racing in ALL forms has changed. You can sit here and say that people should do this or that, but the perfect storm of increased costs for the cars, higher expenses for competing, and dwindling gate receipts, mean that it is what it is right now for ALL forms of racing. I encouraged NO ONE to leave the sport, but to imply that your "racing investment" should give a suitable return is basically ludicrous - its not happening in your lifetime Don. That race car in your garage is no different than a shiny new bowling ball or a bass boat sitting next to that garage. So, to paraphrase - please don't tell me to walk in your shoes - I have. And I knew enough to get out of them when they didn't fit any more.

I outlined a plan in my first post. I haven't read your opposing opinion on here yet. Try to keep my race team out of the content. If you want to get personally involved with my team, as it seems so many on here do, I'll be glad to give you my address for your sponsor money. Otherwise, leave me out of the post or giving me personal advice. Thanks.

Yeah, I don't get it.

You (DM) get on here and plead your case for an open tire rule ... BEGGING that they open it up.

Well, wouldn't you know it that a group does just that ... AND YOU STILL COMPLAIN!

An open tire rule is an open tire rule ... how can you say we have an open tire rule then turn around and say you have to run a tire similar to brand X? Sorry, that would not be OPEN!

Like many others, I really don't understand why a self proclaimed racing genius like yourself doesn't start your own group ... it makes absolutely no sense to me.

If you don't like the cost, don't race. Real simple.

Joe Shockley

[DonMoore10]

Originally Posted by JShock66 Yeah, I don't get it. You (DM) get on here and plead your case for an open tire rule ... BEGGING that they open it up. Well, wouldn't you know it that a group does just that ... AND YOU STILL COMPLAIN! An open tire rule is an open tire rule ... how can you say we have an open tire rule then turn around and say you have to run a tire similar to brand X? Sorry, that would not be OPEN! Like many others, I really don't understand why a self proclaimed racing genius like yourself doesn't start your own group ... it makes absolutely no sense to me. If you don't like the cost, don't race. Real simple. Joe Shockley

Another person on a long list of debate team rejects that has no idea how to post on the topic.

[are39]

Hey Don,
When the press release was originally posted, the cost for the two brands of tires was listed; however, that has subsequently been removed. I don't know why, just what I observed. Have you contacted the series owner about it yet? Or tried getting in touch with American Racer on their costs? I don't remember the exact dollar amounts posted, but the ARs were cheaper. I know that really doesn't help for particulars, although possible places to start to get more answers. As for the RR rim, I believe the rule states: "The right rear wheel may be a maximum of ten (10) inches in rim width." So you are limited to a MAX of 10", if you wanna run a 8" rim for more side-wall flex or whatever, go for it.
Thanks,
Chad Atkinson

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 Another person on a long list of debate team rejects that has no idea how to post on the topic.

And WE are the debate team rejects? We are the not the ones on here starting never ending topics just to see themselves type.

My point was, that the ENTIRE topic is pointless because you want an open tire rule, then in the same breath, want it to be like a specific tire.

I have never seen anyone start topics that go in more circles than a NASCAR race.

Are you related to Michael Moore? That's another guy who loves to complain about everything but really does nothing about it.

And please, make your reply "ON TOPIC" to what I just said.

[badgerfan]

I believe the topic is tire rules and how they might encourage more owner participation in midget racing. As a fan seeing car counts continuing to diminish I try to go the extra mile to understand any owner's thoughts. I think its counter productive to do otherwise.
I have never seen any post by Mr. Moore implying that he is looking for a "return on his investment". If more of us voiced concerns to sanctioning bodies, promoters and anyone else we thought we could persuade that a tire rule based on the greater good for the sport would put more cars on the track I personally believe we are better off. Its time to engage in some critical thinking on the costs involved and simply trying to kill the messenger won't do much good.
Narrower wheels, harder compounds and an open tire rule may be a great start. I haven't heard anybody say it wouldn't work, only that it isn't likely. Nothing is likely if no one pushes for it.