Originally Posted by cmiracingvids:
Paragon has done this for years. U can run an old steel block in an old early 2000s frame with some steel body non adjustable shocks and go out and race and have fun. Or, buy good equipment, get all the bells and whistles and show up with your young 16-18 year old and try and groom the next big thing. Paragon knows and understands, you're gonna all make $100 bucks. So, what you spend to get that $100 at the end of the night is up to you. The purse drives cost down and dictates what cars show up. And last I checked, they get 30+ every night. Even this year.
Amen, I bought a car this year, its fast, I am not. I am out to have fun and love Paragon. I get to make just as many laps as anyone else at Paragon instead of getting sent home early with only a heat race plus a few in the "B" when I don't make the main at other tracks. The $100 basically pays for my entire family to get in the gate so I compare the cost of car ownership no different than having a bass boat, swimming pool, or having a kid in travel league ball. The misconception that everyone makes is thinking that everyone is out to make a living or profit from this sport when the vast majority are just out to compete, have fun, and get a thrill. At least that's my motivation.
Paragon provides the opportunity for a guy with low bucks to run a sprint car. I have ran there for 3 years now in all used equipment. Its nice place for a low budget guy to run or begginers get a lot of laps and get 100 bucks to start.
Lots of good points here, I don't think adding classes is a good thing either. Wing sprints are boring to watch anyway, I'll take nonwing cars anytime. To me it seems that are plenty of classes for someone to find what they like. The hornet cars have gotten popular lately, but they're the type of cars that the younger generation grew up around. Much like the street/pure/whatever stock were 10-15 years ago. If a track that runs sprints weekly like the burg went to a 305 class instead of the sprints they run now guys wouldn't be able to run with big guys when their series comes to town.
The thread topic was "could a track operate with 410 non wing, 305 winged and a support class" I would like to see someone make this work, maybe even two support classes, TQ's and mini sprints (extreme midgets), make it an all open wheel show.
Keith and Judy Ford have carved a niche in the sprint car field that has worked for several years, racing for fun and/or experience, I believe this could work for the other classes as well, it would require a dedicated track owner/promoter, it wouldn't happen overnight, look at what Harold Hunter has done at Montpelier with the development of his midget class, it's not high dollar, but, it's growing and will continue to grow.
Grass root racers are willing to basically, pay for their own fun and will support a track that treats them fair, In my opinion, I believe the problem with low car counts in this weak economy (,high gas prices, reduced income) is too many High Dollar race tracks and not enough High Dollar race cars & FANS, it's the old "supply & demand" thingy.
A wing or non- wing 305 class would be a good stepping stone for those wanting to get into sprint car racing and/or for those racing on a budget. It's not a new idea, it just isn't done in Indiana other states have realized 305 classes provide good competition, affordability, and create a stepping stone from smaller cars to the sprint car ranks without the huge leap to 410's. I would like to see a track start a 305 class!
I have argued for years that the primary issue with decreasing car counts is a numbers issue more thsn a cost issue. Meaning we have more people leaving the sport (for various reasons) than we have coming into the sport. You can do all you want to cut costs but if you do not have sufficient levels of drivers/teams you are going to do little to increase car counts.
So the effort should br focused on getting people involved in our sport on the driver side as well as the fan side. One way is to have entry level classes within the open wheel ranks. It is unrealistic to expect an average person to wake up one day and go out and buy a 410 or even 360. Honestly, as fans and especially drivers we dont want that either.
I always liked the originsl idea/platform of the Ford Focus midgets. There are alot of drivers now in both full midgets and sprint cars that might not otherwise be in the sport if not for that class.
So I think the 305's or similar type class would be great for most tracks to run as a support class. I would have them run both wing and nonwing depending on the premier class. If the premier class is 410 nonwing the 305s run with a wing. If the premier class is 410 wing you run them nonwing. Especially if run as a support class for a special show. This provides the 305 guys with experience in both disciplines but most importantly the fans two VISUALLY different classes. Average fans ate not going to know or tell the difference between a 410, 360, or 305 nonwing. Most will wonder why two classes appear to be the same but run separate classes. I also think that should apply to any sprint show. Do not run two or more different nonwing or wing classes on the same night.
The biggest thing with an entry level class is making sure all the tracks in an area have the same rules!!!! This would be nice for all classes, but is essential for entry level.
Knoxville would b the exception to your rule . All wing 410 ,360,305. How about if 305s were ur starter class they run wing/ nonwing every other week ?
All very good points guys! As a fan and someone that could afford getting a 305 I like to hear all these opinions. Ive never seen a 305 race before except for online. Do you guys think a promoter would ever consider putting on a 305 race? I think some fans would like to see a 305 race before a track totally changes their program. With the 305 tracks in OH being somewhat close maybe they'd run around here once or twice so we could see what its all about. I feel like a lot of fans around here have a bad thought about 305s wing racing because we all LOVE non wing racing. Id like to see a local track give it a chance.
305's are kind of a double edged sword. With a 305 being appealing to a lower budget wrench, fan, 600 driver, etc wanting to suit up and drive, they're also appealing to the guys who are losing their tail in the 360/410 cars too.
Think of it like this..
I'm currently a 410 owner (wishful thinking). Last Saturday I ran at Kokomo, blew the motor and am now done for the season. Ive got a set of spare everything, and I'm only loyal to Kokomo because I cant afford to haul anywhere else and run. So I hear talk of this 305 division. Just as good racing as anywhere else, and car counts are getting a little better. So the 40k that I was saving for a new 410 for next spring, just turned into 10k for a strong 305. Now, that other 30k goes into the trailer, more spares, another car. More $$ to tow places and participate in a possible touring 305 series across the state/region.
Now I can go have just as much fun, and spend less money. Or spend just as much money, and have more fun.
It's like when the ASCS brought their regional stuff around Arizona. We had the only ASCS Non-Winged series in the nation. All the 410 guys who didnt sell everything when Manzy closed, quickly sold the 410's to the CRA neighbors, and went with the 360's for the ASCS Canyon Region. Then we could go and run Tucson with the wing, and take the wing off the following night/week and run in Phx.
THEN, the 360 engine builders figured out the demand for a good 360 motor, so up go the prices!!! Owners scratch their heads and say "well damn, I could buy a good 410 for the price of a shiny new 360".
I'm not a psychic, but I could see this coming around the same way for a 305 division. Only way we're ever gonna mediate costs is a crate motor. Take the same 602 GM Performance engine that the Stock Car guys run in their crate class. The "Crate Sprint Car" class director for Indiana, Ohio, etc mandates a shock rule, tire rule, and 1 engine guy in the region to freshen the motors in the off season with an inspection stamp.
We have a very strong 305 Sprint racing presence here in PA and NJ. Car counts are good and so is the racing. The RaceSaver series now has 10 areas they are racing in and 700 registered cars across the country. I don't see why and am surprised that someone has yet to start a wingless 305 group yet.
I see a lot of guys and gals moving up from Micros to 305's and then into 360's or 410's. Also seeing guys step back to 305's who once race in 410's too.
I get to about 3 to 5 PASS 305 races a year and must say it pretty good.
