These are the 2012 Rules for Florida....as simple as I can make them and each be competative

2012 Florida Winternationals
Lightning Sprint Rules

MOTOR: STOCK!!!!!!!!!!!

Four (4) cylinder, four (4) cycle motorcycle engine only. STOCK bore and stroke.
750/1000/1205 maximum Chain Driven, 1352cc MAX with a quick change....motors will be teched
Electric self starting, no push starting allowed and must be able to drive off under on power

STOCK head, cylinder and crankcase. "no titanum parts anywhere" unless they come STOCK!!
ANY PARTS other then those that came STOCK specfic for that engine will be demed ILLEGAL
You are not allowed to do anything to the engine other then change oil pan and pick-up
STOCK...STOCK...STOCK... We have hired a great techman for the winternationals and HE will DETERMINE GO or NO GO....PERIOD!!

FUEL: ANY FUEL Gas/Alcohol/E85

Six (6) inch offset-measured C/L of motor and C/L of frame.

NO in cockpit adjustments of any kind STRICTLY enforced.


CHASSIS:

UPRIGHT CHASSIS ONLY

Roll cage - minimum 11/4 inch OD X .095 wall 4130n tubing.

Driver minimum head clearance 3 inches measured to the top of the cage.

Wheelbase: Min. 63 inches - Max. 72 inches.

Car to resemble a sprint car, particularly the hood and tail NO SQUARE TAILS NO EXTRA SIDE BOARDS ON ROLL CAGE. Visor is allowed . No carbon fiber or titanium allowed.

Drivers feet required to be behind the motor.

Hydraulic brakes capable of sliding rear wheels required.

Steering gear mandatory (rack and pinion steering IS allowed)

Fuel tank MUST HAVE A BLADDER ...must be well secured behind the driver and under the body tail piece. Plastic tanks MUST BE incased with a metal container to prevent puncure and aluminum tanks are not allowed nor are tail tanks WITHOUT a bladder (GAS OR ALCOHOL).

Bumpers and nerf bars required. Nerf bars cannot be wider than the tires.

Mufflers (optional) per track specifications.

Gasoline/Alcohol/E85 fuel only. Pump gas 93 octane max. No oxygen booster. Top end oil additives allowed. MUST have fuel shut off at on the right side of tail tank PAINTED RED.

Chain must be properly guarded and for quick change cars Drive line MUST have a hoop to protect the driver and fuel tank.

Wheels must be 13” diameter ONLY. Tires are to be a minimum 62” circumference and a maximum of 84”, Tires may be of any make RIGHT REAR must punch 40 compound.

Top wing not to exceed 16 square feet, Nose wings acceptable.

WEIGHT:

1000cc 950 lbs. with driver for winged events, 925 lbs. for non-winged.

1205cc 975 lbs. with driver for winged events, 950 lbs. for non-winged

1352cc/with quick change only 1050 lbs. with driver for winged events, 1025 lbs. for non-winged

600/750cc UPRIGHT cars min. weight with driver is 875 lbs, for winged and 850 lbs for non-winged

Gas: 25# less across the board

NUMBERS must be on both sides of tank and nose

We will check the weights to make sure they are safely placed attached to the car. You must have them bolted to the chassis, you CANNOT use hose clamps or plastic ties to hold them on the car. You will be inspected and must be painted white and have your # CLEARLY on each piece of weight

NO TITANIUM PARTS OF ANY KIND ON CAR UNLESS THEY COME STOCK IN THE ENGINE

You get way too up tight thinking about guys spending $7000.00 inside their engines. If they want to do that and run for a $500.00 to win race, then more power to them. I have raced with my share of Orient express and Hank Scott motors in the past. I have also been at the track to the wee small hours in the morning taking my engine apart so some guy that can't even read a mike looked on trying to see how I was cheating. I don't enjoy spending money on a $1500.00 Ebay motor let alone a $10,000.00 Hank Scott Hand-granade. Some of the newer 1000cc motors are back to using balancer shafts. If you don't take them out they will be a short life motor, you have to change something on the inside.

We have been "playing" and that is the term I meant to use with "MINI-SPRINTS" when that was the only term used to describe them. The biggest thing that controls the speed of these other than setup is "weight". When we started our driver weighed 80 lbs. We were very fast and when he didn't screw up we did real well. The minimum weight then was I think 800 lbs. and we had to add weight to race. There were a lot of car and drivers then that weighed well over 1000 lbs. I did not think that was right back then and said so. I have been raising hell for better than 20 some years now trying to get the weight up to a place where a normal size person would be able to at least run up front every once in a while. My driver now weighs about 240 lbs, thank God his driving skills have improved with his weight. We are still "Playing" If I was racing for a real I guess I would have to fire my son, and find a skinny driver to race with.

Now what about that 240 lb guy just getting into "playing" with MINI-SPRINTS. With a light weight car we cross the scale at about 1050 lbs with a wing at the end of a race. Does this 240 lb. guy have a chance to run up front, I don't think so he gets in to racing and right back out again.

The guy's up north are already playing with 1000cc sidewinders. They are much **lighter** than us we ain't going to out run them we might out handle or out drive them but we can't beat them.

The answer again is weight, it always has been weight, we work with a limited amount of hp and handling power. The lighter the object the better it goes around turns "something to do with one of Newtons laws". Twenty five pounds makes a big difference in one of these things, (people spend thousands of dollars with a 410 to save a few ounces) you don't see much difference at top speed but the difference is how long it takes to get to top speed. That is one reason everybody tries to win the race on the first lap, the lighter guys simply out drag the heavy cars to the first turn and the race is over.

I am kind of partial to MMSA rules. We got Bill to soften his weight for the alky weight limit and since we were already heavy we could use the4 more hp. Somebody must have blew a bunch of smoke up Jerry's arse and told him that the baddest motor out there was a boat anchor zx12 and alky was good for at least 30 hp. Alky is great at keeping our motor temp's down and is much safer in a crash, but it also requires more fuel per race (we start the race about 10 lbs heavier just because we need more fuel, but we threw our fan away and use a smaller radiator. In the old days they figured it took twice as much alky as gasoline to run an engine and it did, but with todays modern electronic injection it's more like 40 or 50 percent or about a gallon or so more fuel per race.

Keep in mind that you are still "playing" with these things and if you are not playing you are in the wrong sport. You can't stop a person from spending money. This board is full of people selling glittering bull s$%*! to make racers faster if they want to spent their money they have the right to do so. Get serious about WEIGHT! Weigh all of your cars find a weight average You already know what the minimum weight will be I see people going back and forth to the scales so they can just make the weight limit, this makes me a little sad because I don't have to do this anymore. If you had a realistic weight (skewed toward the heavy side cars ) everybody would have to be doing the scale thing, and everybody would have a better chance of runing up front.

On the weight deal i busted but on my car and did my homework on shaving weight... Old 94 bailey and a 215lbs driver i rolled over the scales in peoria at 910lbs w/2 gallons of fuel..WHICH kinda surprised me.. Saldanas fuel forward 14 gal bladder tank cut off a boatload...Plus other stuff i did...VERY time consuming...

Dad Are you speaking about the Florida winternational rules?
I have been in direct contact with Bill and have followed his rules some what close...specially weight....Here are the ....

MMSA weight rules:

Cars using alcohol/methanol and ethanol fuel must weigh a min. of
935 lbs. with driver for winged events, 900 lbs. for non-winged.

cars on gas weight will remain at 900 lbs. for winged races with driver and reduced to 865 lbs. for non-winged.

600cc cars min. weight with driver is 875 lbs, for winged and 840 lbs for non-winged.

SSLS weight rule:
1000cc 950 lbs. with driver for winged events, 925 lbs. for non-winged.

1205cc 1025 lbs. with driver for winged events, 1000 lbs. for non-winged

1352cc/with quick change ONLY 1100 lbs. with driver for winged events, 1075 lbs. for non-winged

600/750cc UPRIGHT cars min. weight with driver is 875 lbs, for winged and 850 lbs for non-winged

The same for gas/alky/E-85

QUOTE:"My driver now weighs about 240 lbs, thank God his driving skills have improved with his weight."

The Southern States Lightning Sprints Series Champion weight 280 and has 8 wins W/O the wing....that is why I am such a proponent of non wing racing....it brings everyone closer and you can actually use the drivers weight to you advantage....

you will never every please everyone and don't even try to be perfect (we all know what happen to the last perfect guy on earth) less just RACE have fun and here are the rules...you can come race or you stay up north and freeze your butts off in Feb....oh and Dad that was just a general statement NOT intended toward you...I was in Indiana for 1 winter and that was all it took for me to come my butt back to Florida...LOL

WHAT IF THE HYBUSA'S ARE FASTER. The cost of 1000 cc sprints went up another $2500.00 in Florida? and we change the name to 1400cc (L*******G) sprints.

The red fuel shut off valve is new and that is going to take a little rigging.

My big fear is some guys are controlling their fuel pump with a drivers switch or kill switch. If they crash and get knocked out and if that fuel line breaks these pumps just keep on pumping fuel until they are turned off. We need to be sure the pump is controlled either by a oil pres switch or the ecm to make sure they turn off when and if the motor stops running.

We still run a midget chassis and that darned old left rear midget nerf bar stick out about 2" past our left rear tire how does this pose a safety problem and if it does should we notify USAC and POWERI?

I'm getting out my old R/C stuff so I can adjust my shocks from the grand stands again. We actually raced with a guy several years ago that thought we were doing that. So what did I do Put a little antena on my wing.

You are also getting a little carried away with the bladder thing . Most of the little fuel cells that fit under the tail don't have a bladder and you can't buy one for them that I know of. A tank and bladder is a little over $1000.00. I know of several racers that had to buy a new tank and bladder because they were just running tail tanks.

This is a SAFETY issue...it is WAY SAFER and less expensive to add weight then to try to trim weight off a car....weight is speed...Ferkle spent one entire winter drilling out bolt centers and coping the ends just to save 8.3 pounds back in the late '80s for the Florida trip...1st nite out sheered one of those bolts and destroyed the car..so much for saving weight!!!

Stump88 if you got any of those old 14 gal tanksand cells laying around I could sure use one. We usualy run about 5 or 6 gals of alky for a 20 lap race. I really don't see the need for a cell with this much fuel but then that is just my thinking. If you run 19 gal's a cell is a good idea.

Back in the day Floyd built what he called his light weight chassis. We raced with a guy that I know bought 3 of those frames in one year. Every time he flipped the thing just folded up.

It is far from safe to add weight to a car, have you ever seen a car in a hard crash & that weight go flying into the grandstands? I have & luckily nobody was injured that time, these chassis are not designed to have large amounts of weight bolted to them either & I have seen tubes ripped out of the chassis in hard crashes because of it. I don't know what your hard on is for titanium or carbon fiber either if you have a weight rule? I understand cost cutting & trying to further the sport but when you create a huge rule book that isn't necessary & teching after the races that takes longer than the entire night of racing you are not going to bring people into the sport. I have no issues with the stock engine rule if there can be an easy way to tech them, I however do have a problem with some idiot taking my motor apart at the end of the night when he doesn't know up from down.

---------- Post added at 5:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 5:28 PM ----------

this is all about cost cutting but I haven't seen anybody say anything about eliminating the $3000 shock's, we can talk about buying a titanium bolt that will last just about forever but god forbid we talk about the shocks that get torn off anytime you crash!

we called them "SNOW BIRDS". Sell out go south miss the kids sell out again and come back north, this time broke.

Hard to make a good race track on sand wonder how much it would cost to bring 10,000 truck loads of Blomington clay down there so you could make a really good race track. Good question to pose to Bubba.

I just love this old dead horse.

---------- Post added at 6:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 6:36 PM ----------

Get 1/4" lead plate cut to fit bottom of drivers seat and SIT ON IT. It is soft and will mold to your butt much like a good pair of shoes. It aint going no place.

can you get 1 that weighs 100lbs? Sounds like thats what stumps needs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there shouldn't be a weight rule just that we shouldn't get carried away adding a ton of weight to them. Sure small amounts can be added safely but 50lbs is a little hard to add safely.