[PatrickMead#13]

Originally Posted by jjones752 Kinda like this? You can see the chainguard just to the left of the belt in the red square... The seat that's in it is for a "husky" fella, I'm putting in a 17" seat that I bought from Patrick that should give me some space between the chainguard and the belt opening in the seat; if I get a tube welded in parallel to the outer frame rail just inboard of the guard (which is what looks like was there originally), we should be "gooda go" (in my best Aussie accent)...

That picture pretty much shows my setup perfectly. If you notice in the picture and when you see my car, my seat is installed slightly on an angle from side to side as does the yellow car appears to be as well. I did it mainly so when I'm hooked in I don't feel like I'm offset to the right. Makes me feel centered in the car. (Just a personal thing I guess..lol) my seat is a 15" so room isn't an issue, especially with the way the seat is angled. It gives about 1-1.5" of room for the belt to wrap the left side bar as shown in the yellow car picture. That 17" seat had room in my chassis as well with the slight angled mounting.

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[sprint28]

Joe devin- DRC builds sprints and midgets but he's your man good guy and does excellent work

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[TQ29m]

Technically speaking, that seat belt anchor needs to be where the lower frame rail, and the upright meet, just in front of the rear axle, that gets it back far anough, and low enough in the chassis, to plant your butt when you tighten the belts, the way I see it in both chassis, it offers little if any help, in an end over crash of anykind, you need the angle and the length on the belts, to allow the lap belt to do it's job, personally, I wouldn't drive a car set up like that, nor would I pass it thru inspection, I think if you do ever, and it will happen, not if, but when, have a crash where you are subjected to being upside down, and or landing upside down, the results may not be to your liking. JMHO Bob

[jjones752]

Originally Posted by TQ29m Technically speaking, that seat belt anchor needs to be where the lower frame rail, and the upright meet, just in front of the rear axle, that gets it back far anough, and low enough in the chassis, to plant your butt when you tighten the belts, the way I see it in both chassis, it offers little if any help, in an end over crash of anykind, you need the angle and the length on the belts, to allow the lap belt to do it's job, personally, I wouldn't drive a car set up like that, nor would I pass it thru inspection, I think if you do ever, and it will happen, not if, but when, have a crash where you are subjected to being upside down, and or landing upside down, the results may not be to your liking. JMHO Bob

It's hard to tell from the angle of the picture, but based on what I've been able to glean so far, and Patrick's input that his Bailey has this exact setup, I can only assume that a few Baileys have passed tech somewhere.
You can't really see the angle of the belt from this perspective, and whatever I have done I'll make sure it crosses the pelvis correctly and is captured in a way that doesn't allow it to slide up and down the mounting point, and that the structure is far enough to the left that the belt isn't wrapped under my hip. I wouldn't think the extra six inches in length is that critical, and I'm planning on purchasing pull-up adjusters so getting them cinched shouldn't be an issue either. I'm very leery about getting the webbing anywhere near the chain. That's probably why Bailey did it that way in the first place.
I do appreciate your concern though, Bob. Believe me, I want it to be safe. It's gonna be my butt in the seat, after all. If I didn't care I'd just leave it the way it is.
I have three good leads on fab shops as a result of this thread, so I'm sure those guys will know what needs to be done.
Thanks for everybody's input.

Jim Jones

[TQ29m]

I know it's hard to understand, but that lap belt needs to "wrap" around your hips/pelvis, not just ride over the top, so to speak, in order to have any tension on your butt, as high up as it is, it for the most part, just goes over your hips/pelvis, it doesn't really pull you down in the seat. Do it right, and you'll see the difference, and if you don't, it might be a long healing period, I've been over hard in my car lots of times, and so have other drivers who have driven for me, one went directly end over on the cage, bagged him pretty good, but otherwise ok, another went over 8 times at Gas City, and helped fix it so we could run the Feature after transfering thru the semi, couldn't do that if they weren't right! Sorry to be so adamant about the installation, but as you might have picked up on, I do have a thing about belts, and proper installation. Bob

[jjones752]

Bob, I think we're saying the same thing, it's just hard to visualize what the belts are actually doing in the picture.
I'm not so concerned that the end result looks like the picture as I am in achieving the desired result, which is wrapped around the pelvis, pulling down at an angle, with the attachment points on the chassis immobilized to prevent shifting out of position. That's easier to achieve by running the belt over to the main frame diagonal on the left side of a TQ or Midget where the driveline is between your legs. I am just as uncomfortable about getting my belt close to a #530 buzz saw as I am about not having the right belt attachment.
Some of the ideas you've come up with would result in the mounting location in virtually the same location I have in mind, albeit just a little lower. I would think that a slightly shorter belt length would be advantageous, all other factors being the same, because it would lessen the elongation of the belt in a hard crash and keep me in the seat even better. Am I missing something? You can't have belts that long in an Indycar, the mount would be a very short distance from your pelvis.
Bottom line, I'm not so stubborn that I won't listen to reason, and if Leaders' Edge, or DRC or whoever I go to has a better idea I'm all ears. This has been a great discussion. I'm glad I put it out there, and I hope I get as much input when I get the car back together and start asking setup questions...

[TQ29m]

The belt needs to come up from as low as you can get it, between the upper frame rail, and the seat, thru the slot in the seat, and across your pelvis, not over the top rail. Maybe we are talking about the same thing, but until you get it away from the top rail, and up thru the slot in the seat, IMHO it isn't safe. I understand the location of the chain, but a guard similar to the one on the yellow car should suffice. The lap belt needs to have some length to it, to allow the wrap around you, and they do need to stretch a little, that's why the installation shows them as they are meant to be installed. Bob!

[jjones752]

If by "the installation" you mean the picture of the yellow car, that's what I want to do. It will not go over the top frame rail or anywhere even remotely near it, but "between the upper frame rail, and the seat, thru the slot in the seat, and across your pelvis", just as you state. Nothing else is acceptable. Sorry if somehow I failed to communicate that. I now have several guys IM'ing me offering to do the work so I guess I better get busy and finish getting the old girl taken apart. Gotta fit the new bodywork that just came today first, though, so I can figure out where the dzus tabs need to go.
This darn work thing that eats up most of my day is sure a distraction...

[PatrickMead#13]

I forgot to mention that the bottom of my seat is moved forward about 3" along with the angled mounting. Sitting in the seat, my belt wraps around the pelvis, through the slots in the seat, and mounts about 2" below the bottom of the seat under me. Funny thing was when I bought my car, someone put the original belts in over the seat as well. It scares me to think there might be drivers out there risking their safety on misinstalled equipment. I will get my as-installed pictures tomorrow to show my setup because it differs slightly from the factory picture posted earlier. We need to get ya safe because the season opener is coming......

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[jjones752]

Originally Posted by PatrickMead#13 I forgot to mention that the bottom of my seat is moved forward about 3" along with the angled mounting. Sitting in the seat, my belt wraps around the pelvis, through the slots in the seat, and mounts about 2" below the bottom of the seat under me. Funny thing was when I bought my car, someone put the original belts in over the seat as well. It scares me to think there might be drivers out there risking their safety on misinstalled equipment. I will get my as-installed pictures tomorrow to show my setup because it differs slightly from the factory picture posted earlier. We need to get ya safe because the season opener is coming...... Posted via Mobile Device

So it sounds like you've got a bit of a layback to your seat. Looking forward to seeing the pics. I made contact with Scott Baue at Leader's Edge and I got the impression he knows just what to do. If all goes well with the disassembly I should be trucking my frame, seat and butt over there early next week for a fitting.
Can't wait to go racing!
JEJ