Midget car counts - A different perspective

ThePurple73 · 9/3/10, 9:59 PM

I think the problem is pretty simple. It is the price of cars..midgets, sprints it doesn't matter. What is acceptable as an owner?
If you examine what it cost to have a competitive midget roller, engine, trailer, support equip, some help. Then as an owner you think well how does that compare with owning a new 410 sprint team. Do the math on that. What are the differences? Because you want to TRY to recoup as much as possible through competing, finding out the number of places you can race and the levels of pay out per level of competition.

Then you ask your self how bad you want to compete and win, and where do I have to travel to accomplish your goals, and what is the payback. Managing and aquiring a winning driver.

So concentrations of like minded people who choose the midget route are quite unique. They find the business proposal of all the above or the personal appreciation/desire to own or drive a midget "thier thing" and accept the financial responsibility and hopefully some reward.

It would be interesting to know how many independent midget owners are successful that aren't from owners that own Sprint/Midget/Silver Crown combinations.

#1jackhewittfan · 9/3/10, 10:49 PM

weekly midget racing wont work but to get drivers experience in driving them. the cars will not be able to compete in the national series just fill the tail end of the field. no owner is going to spend 40000 plus on a top notch motor that will need refreshed every 5 to 7 races and run it every week for peanuts basically.
Posted via Mobile Device

LEADERS EDGE · 9/4/10, 10:55 AM

A weekly series would work and would EVENTUALLY get cars when teams figured that the series would be there. No track wants to schedule a weekly series on speculation and promises on what will be. It's easy to schedule sprints because there are an abundence of them. Sprints are a sure bet where midgets aren't in the near term.

That and the purse has to resemble that of a local sprint purse because of the costs of running a car. Not many tracks are going to have what amounts to two headlining purses per night.

Make no mistake about it, 16th Street had cars. It didn't go away because of bad car counts. Long story short; the fans on many occasions came out and supported the shows, but many of the nights ran long because of down time and in the end the fans weren't really sure when the races were being run.

There are many things that go along with this and it is an extremely complicated subject with not one exact answer. While some point at the cost of motors(Which $40,000 is not the going rate for most of the motors out there) many owners I speek to; don't feel motors are out of line. In many ways; the variety of motors which is the thing that has made Midget racing appeal to many people, now seems to be a hinderence to the sport. So many people will point at whichever motor that won the most recent race and say:"I can't win without one of those". No matter that a motor like theirs won last week or last month.

For some reason people look at the Sprint Cars and say:"Thats just a Chevy. Same motor that has won for the past x amount of years." Truth is that a Chevy isn't a Chevy as there has been many developments in performance over the past 15 years. It costs alot to keep that Chevy motor competitive year after year.

I agree though that in many ways Midget Racing has some of the best racing out there. Maybe thats caused by having a smaller group of people who are extremely dedicated to what they do.

jason · 9/4/10, 11:20 AM

In my opinion, as someone who started selling goodyears to USAC midgets in the late 80's to owning a midget in the early 00's, the midgets (and sprints for that matter) have been pushed onto tracks and events that aren't really for them. Outside of an occasional PIR (Copper World) or Belleville, the entire concept of a midget really belonged on bullrings. When they were pushed to 1/2 mile tracks and beyond, they pushed people out. Now they were pushed to those places I believe because the purses (in theory) could better support them.

The entire economy of racing is so upside down that ANY class at ANY track has a hard time getting large participation. At Flat Rock and Toledo Speedway we cringe at running the Late Models for fear of their purse - even though we get some of the larger car counts in the area - and this is with an anemic purse!

Risk vs. Return is a big reason you don't see either larger counts or smaller tracks running them. I don't see many classes around me open wheel or otherwise that asks someone to spend even as "little" as 10,000 on a motor that "may" make an entire season...if that season is under 10 races... Also, I can't see convincing my track owner to book a midget show for $10,000 with the hope of enticing 13-15 midgets to come out...

LEADERS EDGE · 9/4/10, 1:54 PM

To say that it was only recently that Midgets started running bigger tracks isn't really accurate. Miles and half miles have been apart of midget racing since nearly the beginning.

Yes they ran the bull rings, but they also ran the miles as well.

According to the USAC schedule; this year they will have run on 8 tracks .500 mile or greater with no 1.0 mile tracks being run. Only 3 of those venues are larger than a half.

As i have said before....I just really don't think people give enough weight to the fact that Sprint Cars now race regulary where at one time Midget would only Run.

USAC didn't run it's first Sprint race on a track less than a Half Mile was at Kokomo in I believe 1982. As Sprint Cars have become seen less as "Widow Makers" and more as a Hobby sport, they have grown and midgets have not.

Face it...Sprinters are louder and sound more impressive to say you drive than a midget is.

9/3/10, 9:59 PM	#11 Re: Midget car counts - A different perspecti
ThePurple73 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 493	I think the problem is pretty simple. It is the price of cars..midgets, sprints it doesn't matter. What is acceptable as an owner? If you examine what it cost to have a competitive midget roller, engine, trailer, support equip, some help. Then as an owner you think well how does that compare with owning a new 410 sprint team. Do the math on that. What are the differences? Because you want to TRY to recoup as much as possible through competing, finding out the number of places you can race and the levels of pay out per level of competition. Then you ask your self how bad you want to compete and win, and where do I have to travel to accomplish your goals, and what is the payback. Managing and aquiring a winning driver. So concentrations of like minded people who choose the midget route are quite unique. They find the business proposal of all the above or the personal appreciation/desire to own or drive a midget "thier thing" and accept the financial responsibility and hopefully some reward. It would be interesting to know how many independent midget owners are successful that aren't from owners that own Sprint/Midget/Silver Crown combinations. _________________________________________________ Last edited by ThePurple73; 9/3/10 at 10:03 PM.

9/3/10, 10:49 PM	#12
#1jackhewittfan Senior Member Race Count This Year: 45 Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 356	weekly midget racing wont work but to get drivers experience in driving them. the cars will not be able to compete in the national series just fill the tail end of the field. no owner is going to spend 40000 plus on a top notch motor that will need refreshed every 5 to 7 races and run it every week for peanuts basically. Posted via Mobile Device

9/4/10, 10:55 AM	#13 Re: Midget car counts - A different perspecti
LEADERS EDGE Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 980	A weekly series would work and would EVENTUALLY get cars when teams figured that the series would be there. No track wants to schedule a weekly series on speculation and promises on what will be. It's easy to schedule sprints because there are an abundence of them. Sprints are a sure bet where midgets aren't in the near term. That and the purse has to resemble that of a local sprint purse because of the costs of running a car. Not many tracks are going to have what amounts to two headlining purses per night. Make no mistake about it, 16th Street had cars. It didn't go away because of bad car counts. Long story short; the fans on many occasions came out and supported the shows, but many of the nights ran long because of down time and in the end the fans weren't really sure when the races were being run. There are many things that go along with this and it is an extremely complicated subject with not one exact answer. While some point at the cost of motors(Which $40,000 is not the going rate for most of the motors out there) many owners I speek to; don't feel motors are out of line. In many ways; the variety of motors which is the thing that has made Midget racing appeal to many people, now seems to be a hinderence to the sport. So many people will point at whichever motor that won the most recent race and say:"I can't win without one of those". No matter that a motor like theirs won last week or last month. For some reason people look at the Sprint Cars and say:"Thats just a Chevy. Same motor that has won for the past x amount of years." Truth is that a Chevy isn't a Chevy as there has been many developments in performance over the past 15 years. It costs alot to keep that Chevy motor competitive year after year. I agree though that in many ways Midget Racing has some of the best racing out there. Maybe thats caused by having a smaller group of people who are extremely dedicated to what they do.

9/4/10, 11:20 AM	#14 Re: Midget car counts - A different perspecti
jason Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 20	In my opinion, as someone who started selling goodyears to USAC midgets in the late 80's to owning a midget in the early 00's, the midgets (and sprints for that matter) have been pushed onto tracks and events that aren't really for them. Outside of an occasional PIR (Copper World) or Belleville, the entire concept of a midget really belonged on bullrings. When they were pushed to 1/2 mile tracks and beyond, they pushed people out. Now they were pushed to those places I believe because the purses (in theory) could better support them. The entire economy of racing is so upside down that ANY class at ANY track has a hard time getting large participation. At Flat Rock and Toledo Speedway we cringe at running the Late Models for fear of their purse - even though we get some of the larger car counts in the area - and this is with an anemic purse! Risk vs. Return is a big reason you don't see either larger counts or smaller tracks running them. I don't see many classes around me open wheel or otherwise that asks someone to spend even as "little" as 10,000 on a motor that "may" make an entire season...if that season is under 10 races... Also, I can't see convincing my track owner to book a midget show for $10,000 with the hope of enticing 13-15 midgets to come out...

9/4/10, 1:54 PM	#15 Re: Midget car counts - A different perspecti
LEADERS EDGE Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 980	To say that it was only recently that Midgets started running bigger tracks isn't really accurate. Miles and half miles have been apart of midget racing since nearly the beginning. Yes they ran the bull rings, but they also ran the miles as well. According to the USAC schedule; this year they will have run on 8 tracks .500 mile or greater with no 1.0 mile tracks being run. Only 3 of those venues are larger than a half. As i have said before....I just really don't think people give enough weight to the fact that Sprint Cars now race regulary where at one time Midget would only Run. USAC didn't run it's first Sprint race on a track less than a Half Mile was at Kokomo in I believe 1982. As Sprint Cars have become seen less as "Widow Makers" and more as a Hobby sport, they have grown and midgets have not. Face it...Sprinters are louder and sound more impressive to say you drive than a midget is.