[Need For Speed]

Originally Posted by Vukie [QUOTE Indy used to be about tradition. Now, Indy is a circus. EARNING your way to Indy by way of Winchester, Eldora, the Indiana State Fairgrounds, etc, etc, should still be the only way to get there! I didn't know that Winchester, Eldora, the Indiana State Fairgrounds, were around in 1911.

Thanks for taking my statement out of context

1911 was different from 1932, and from 1952, and even 1972.... BUT, the majority were still earning their way there! Foriegn or not, they earned their way there.

In the 1972 Indy 500 field, how many drivers do you think knew how to at least -start- a midget or sprint car? I count 21.

In the 2010 Indy 500 field, how many drivers do you think know how to at least -start- a midget or sprint car???? I count 4........

Boy, that sure is progress

[nowingsjeff]

[/QUOTE] Foreign drivers and cars have been part of the history of the 500 since day one.[/QUOTE]

Russ, that's quite true about the foreign drivers. They have always been there, but not as the majority of the field as it is today. Plus those guys you mentioned got there on talent & bravery, not foreign corporate dollars. I guess my question to you is, do you really think Denis Hulme, Jochen Rindt & the rest of the people you mentioned put people in the stands like AJ & Mario did? No need to answer that one its that obvious.

I'm no xenophobe, as I like Helio, Kanaan & Dixon today and enjoyed Nigel Mansell & Nelson Pique in their day and Jackie Stewart before that (even though he admitted to being to scared to run a sprinter), but it sure would be nice to see a few of our sprint & midget heroes at "The 500" and do so without ride buying.

Bottom line, in the hey days of Indy you knew you were seeing the best of the best. Today that isn't the case. Read the names of the 33 drivers in this year's 500. How many of them are nameless & faceless to even hardcore racefans. That's the problem, its probably close to 3/4 of the field. Until that changes "The 500" will be a shadow of its former self. That fact saddens me as I love the history of "The 500 Mile Race", but it still remains a fact.

Originally Posted by Vukie Russ, I think he was referring to the Tony Hulman years. And Winchester was almost around that long, wasn't it?

No, to Winchester but yes to the Wisconsin State Fairgrounds and the Illinois State Fairgrounds.
[/QUOTE]

Winchester was built in either 1916 or 1917 so has been around ALMOST as long as IMS...... and while sprints and midgets are "niche" racing they draw FAR more fans than formula fords and other low horsepower open wheel road racing events. When Smoke and Billy Boat etc were racing and winning the ratings where a hell of alot higher than now and so was oval crowd counts. In fact the old Thunder shows drew much much better ratings than the current IRL...

[Vukie]

"Denis Hulme, Jochen Rindt & the rest of the people you mentioned put people in the stands like AJ & Mario did? No need to answer that one its that obvious."

You mean like the huge crowds the 1960's Can-Am and the F1 races at the Glen drew? Jeff, I may have been a teenager in those days but those races had huge crowds. Yes, Hulme and Revson in the McLaren cars had a following at Indy. Jim Clark was very popular, it was a major news story the day he was killed.

In those days Foyt, Andretti,The Unsers, Gurney, Ruby and Parnelli and so many others raced FIA Sports Cars,F1,Can Am,NASCAR, USAC stock cars, Pikes Peak plus Indy Cars and they had the tire companies and the car manufacturers behind them. That's what made them great and household names. The Le Mans 24 Hour races in the mid and late 60's had major press coverage in the United States because of the Ford vs Ferrari war,

How can Indy Car get any coverage when Speed TV has NA$CAR coverage all the time. Hell, I don't know 2/3 of the NA$CAR field.

I agree with you about the ride buyers but thinking that 33 short trackers will cure the problems of ICR is a pipe dream. The biggest problem may be that the cars of modern era are boring.

In the 60's the cars were also were a draw back in the day. Turbines,Team Lotus, the Chaparrals,the Shelby Cobras,Ford GT's.

---------- Post added at 07:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

Originally Posted by racerdog45 No, to Winchester but yes to the Wisconsin State Fairgrounds and the Illinois State Fairgrounds.

When Smoke and Billy Boat etc were racing and winning the ratings where a hell of alot higher than now and so was oval crowd counts. In fact the old Thunder shows drew much much better ratings than the current IRL...[/QUOTE]

Please don't tell me about the crowds from 10 years, nobody was at Dover, New Hampshire, Las Vegas,Phoenix,Orlando. If they had the crowds they would still be racing there. Sorry,that's the truth.

That true about the TV ratings but the Thunder shows were 20 years ago. If the Thunder shows still had those ratings,they would still be on TV.

---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Need For Speed Thanks for taking my statement out of context 1911 was different from 1932, and from 1952, and even 1972.... BUT, the majority were still earning their way there! Foriegn or not, they earned their way there. In the 1972 Indy 500 field, how many drivers do you think knew how to at least -start- a midget or sprint car? I count 21. In the 2010 Indy 500 field, how many drivers do you think know how to at least -start- a midget or sprint car???? I count 4........ Boy, that sure is progress

Again, sprint and midget racing is a niche sport. We don't have that many fans. 33 sprint and midget drivers in the Indianapolis 500 will not increase interest. I know that's not what people what to hear but it's the truth.

I would bet most people didn't know who Rindt and Hulme were.... they were there for the tradition and also the drivers they knew, like Foyt, Unser etc.... you can go enjoy the greatest spectacle in racing, because that's all it is, a spectacle, it's ceased to be a race. let's face it most race fans could care less about the Indy anymore and the average person doesn't care at all and the idiots who think danica is good for the sport need to be taken out and committed because they are just plain NUTS....... I'll be at the only 500 in Indiana where you HAVE to be a RACER to compete, the Little 500, the best 500 in the state......

[Vukie]

Sorry Joe, they did know who those drivers were and I'll be at both 500's next weekend.
I don't like NA$CAR, so I don't pay attention to it, if folks don't like Indy Car Racing or the 500, then don't pay attention to it. It really works out better that way.

[nowingsjeff]

Originally Posted by Vukie You mean like the huge crowds the 1960's Can-Am and the F1 races at the Glen drew? Jeff, I may have been a teenager in those days but those races had huge crowds. Yes, Hulme and Revson in the McLaren cars had a following at Indy. Jim Clark was very popular, it was a major news story the day he was killed. Again, sprint and midget racing is a niche sport. We don't have that many fans. 33 sprint and midget drivers in the Indianapolis 500 will not increase interest. I know that's not what people what to hear but it's the truth.

Russ, those huge F1 & Can-Am crowds weren't really race fans were they? They were more like the "Snake Pit" type of people. You know, more interested in the party than racing. Much like those street course races of today that most "Real" racefans can't stand.

I don't think anyone on here said the whole field should be made up of sprint & midget drivers. We'd just like to see a few with a legitimate shot in a good ride, that's all.

Russ, hope to see you at the races sometime this summer. Have a good one.

[Need For Speed]

Originally Posted by Vukie it, if folks don't like Indy Car Racing or the 500, then don't pay attention to it. It really works out better that way.

Typical arrogance. IRL ratings are in the toilet, and still there is arrogance.


Make sure to take a foriegn language course before you head to Indy, you'll need it understand the nobodys and the never won a race that amounted to a damn thing 'drivers' ........Sebastian Saavedra,
Bertrand Baguette........who in the blue hell are they?? and who cares?!?!


BTW, the ONLY PERSON that has said 'every driver in the 500 field should be a short track driver' has been YOU!!

[Vukie]

[QUOTE=nowingsjeff;172251]Russ, those huge F1 & Can-Am crowds weren't really race fans were they? They were more like the "Snake Pit" type of people. You know, more interested in the party than racing. Much like those street course races of today that most "Real" racefans can't stand.[/QUOTE

Yes, they were race fans. I guess Big Steve can be called a race fan, he went to the Glen for F1 in those days. I went to Road America in the 70's, does this mean I'm not a race fan? LOL!

The US in the 1960's was a car culture. The Can-AM cars of the 1960's were bad ass race cars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can-Am

---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Need For Speed Typical arrogance. IRL ratings are in the toilet, and still there is arrogance. Make sure to take a foriegn language course before you head to Indy, you'll need it understand the nobodys and the never won a race that amounted to a damn thing 'drivers' ........Sebastian Saavedra, Bertrand Baguette........who in the blue hell are they?? and who cares?!?! BTW, the ONLY PERSON that has said 'every driver in the 500 field should be a short track driver' has been YOU!!

---------- Post added at 08:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 PM ----------

Jeff, are you sure you want to hang out with me. :2: Say hi to Cindy!
I have to study my French lesson before next week.