[Sandy Lowe]

Originally Posted by LEADERS EDGE JJ Yeley,Tony Stewart,Billy Boat,Jon Herb,Jason Leffler,Andy Michner,Jimmy Kite,Tyce Carlson,Jack Hewitt,Steve Kinser,Sarah Fisher, and on and on all got their chance at the dream along with other Americans form other types of racing. Unfortunately, the fans didn't follow to support their activities. If it had been successful, more of these guys would have been there.

How true!

[LEADERS EDGE]

Originally Posted by Lucky161 But it's more expensive than can be supported by the available revenue. nascar spends more. That's true. However, nascar can spend more because they have more. If you waved a magic wand and 50% of nascars money disappeared, we as fans would see almost no difference in their product. If is was cut in half again, same thing. But if you cut the average IRL budget in half, half the field would disappear immediately and that's half of an already pathetic field. I'm not a big Tony George basher, but I can't agree that he was a "man of his word." The reason is that he has publicly stated that he wanted a CART like series from the beginning. I, like many others supported the original "vision" and thought it had a chance. In my opinion they didn't go far enough and didn't stick with it long enough. But considering that he has since said that it wasn't his real goal, I can't support the contention that he was a man of his word. Concerning engine leasing being cheaper than running your own program. The results of engine leasing were "special" team favorites getting the good stuff and everyone else getting the scraps. This was true earlier in CART and proved all over again in the IRL. A case can surely be made to support your contention, but the reality is that engine leasing caused many teams to quit.

I'm not a Tony George honk, but he did do what he set out to do. He floated it as long as he could. He tried his vision and the fans did not respond in numbers to support it. He should not have been expected to do it infinantly.

To try and do it anymore cheaper than it is; is an extremely tough situation. There are some things that can be done, but as far as manpower and equipment needed to run the cars, it is a lean deal.

I'm not saying there isn't situations in the past to support the assumption that motor leasing wasn't level, but from what I have seen and from the people I talk with, the Honda deal is extremely on the level. The current engine lease program is a well run program that allows teams like Fisher and Coyne to compete in todays IRL. With the exception of the first year using the old cars, the IRL has never been as easy to compete in.

[Lucky161]

Originally Posted by LEADERS EDGE I'm not a Tony George honk, but he did do what he set out to do. He floated it as long as he could. He tried his vision and the fans did not respond in numbers to support it. He should not have been expected to do it infinantly. To try and do it anymore cheaper than it is; is an extremely tough situation. There are some things that can be done, but as far as manpower and equipment needed to run the cars, it is a lean deal. I'm not saying there isn't situations in the past to support the assumption that motor leasing wasn't level, but from what I have seen and from the people I talk with, the Honda deal is extremely on the level. The current engine lease program is a well run program that allows teams like Fisher and Coyne to compete in todays IRL. With the exception of the first year using the old cars, the IRL has never been as easy to compete in.

You are much closer than I am to this situation, especially geographically but also team wise. So I hope you don't think my disagreement is any sort of lack of respect for you personally. I have followed the IRL very closely since the first announcement until about 4 or so years ago when I realized that the "vision" was a mirage.

The original "vision" was to lower the cost of the cars and to encourage a reconnection of Indy with it's roots, the short tracks. That was what I bought into. On the cost front, the price of the cars was mandated at around $280K which was a significantly lower price than the going rate of $480K for new Reynards and Lolas. But it wasn't enough as it turned out. The idea that the same car could be run for several years was also a good cost saving move, but again, it was too little too late. The new car every year was replaced with a new car for everyone every 3-4 years. The old cars were not grandfathered in supposedly for safety concerns. It's kind of hard to argue that point, but on the other hand the old car was safe enough one year and not safe enough to even get on the track the following year was tough on small teams. The original $75K for a complete engine was working well for the first few years, although it was not perfect. But for whatever reason, Toyota and Honda were back in with leases. They refused to participate under the original rules, but were more than happy to jump in under their conditions. Chevy who was doing very well under the original rules had to conform to the leasing situation. This is not a cheer for Chevy, although I admit to being a Chevy fan in general. They were responsible for the original leasing, so it could be said they "reaped what they sowed." Honda and Toyota came in, Infiniti left and Chevy was gravely wounded. Honda won that war as Toyota slipped off to nascar without admitting defeat. Now Honda furnishes a 650hp rev limited bullet proof engine with no competition at all for a mere $1 million per season. Briggs and Stratton could probably produce those results.

Of that list of drivers that got their chance, you left off Dave Steele and Davy Hamilton. Add those in and the drivers that got a "real" chance are Tony Stewart, Billy Boat and Davy Hamilton. All were successful despite having almost no rear engined experience. Dave Steele got a second tier Panther ride when they only had the resources for one top line car. Yeley got a third tier Menard car that he was still able to bring home in the top 10 at Indy. Stewart was already headed to nascar. Boat left Foyt to form his own team when the economy dipped. Hamilton was injured. Steele and Yeley's rides folded out from under them. Fisher might be included on those that got a "real" chance and while never in a top line car was fairly successful. And while she is and has been one of my favorites simply because she came from short tracks, she got her ride because of her gender not her resume'. (I still don't know how to do that accent mark) All of the others on that list along with some road racers too were only given their "chance" in very underfunded cars that had no chance.

When Honda and Toyota came back, so did the major CART teams with their "special" deals. Foyt, Hemelgarn, Panther soon fell from competitive top teams to also rans. We were told that was because they really weren't that good. Weren't that good or didn't rate the "special" deals from H and T?

Until Tony George came out and admitted that he intended to have a CART like series, I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt. I thought he was backed into a corner and was forced to compromise his ideals. I can't give him that any more.