[Lucky161]

Originally Posted by Danny Burton Sam, did you notice that there was one driver who was in all 3 of those races you shared here, plus he raced both Saturday night and Sunday afternoon at Winchester. Hint: He won on Saturday night.

I don't remember the year my brother and I went to Winchester, but it was back when Thursday Night Thunder was on ESPN. He was there that weekend too. I can't remember who won, but I don't think it was him.

[Honest-Sam]

Originally Posted by Danny Burton Sam, did you notice that there was one driver who was in all 3 of those races you shared here, plus he raced both Saturday night and Sunday afternoon at Winchester. Hint: He won on Saturday night.

I didn't notice. What a great observation!! I spoke with him briefly at Kalamazoo earlier this year. Sometimes I forget how long he's been racing. I have to admire his tenacity.

[hoosierhillbilly]

There has a been a few different pavement 305 winged spring series in Ohio. THe current series, the Buckeye Super Sprints, runs primarily Sandusky. I have made any of their races this year but I have check the results. The seem to be running less than 20 cars. There are a number of 305 dirt teams in Northern Ohio but few run the pavement. I suspect that special cars and tires costs are to blame but I don't know.

[767]

ok if tires are the issue WHAT IS THE ANSWER??????

[Shawn]

I think it's a combination of things, which have been mentioned here. There's obviously an issue, so hopefully someone can turn it around and at least get car counts heading the other direction. Times are tough and it won't happen overnight, but it can get there.

767, how's "the workplace" treatin' you these days? On a side note, I just wanted to say "congrats", if what I heard is true. :2:

[Geoff Kaiser]

Here is the best solution I can think of to help car counts both winged and not on pavement sprints. Taken from the midwest supermodified association rule book...

13) TIRE PROCEDURE
a) For the purpose of this section, qualifying is defined as time trials, a consi if used, and heat races.
b) At qualifying, each car shall have the tires marked or labeled by MSA officials in a manner or fashion they deem appropriate (stencil, stamping, painting, branding, etc.) Each event’s mark or label may be different in appearance and shall remain on the tire at all times. Only MSA markings will be allowed. Tires stenciled by other sanctioning bodies will not be counted as stenciled tires.
c) MSA only stencils the RF, RR, and LR tires. The new tire rules below apply only to the RF, RR, and LR tires. The LF tire is always a ―freebie‖.
d) At the first two MSA race events of the year, three new tires (one per corner, ie: RF, RR, and LR) will be stenciled.
e) Each race thereafter, only two (2) NEW tires will be stenciled when you qualify. The other tire must be previously stenciled. Due to special circumstances, MSA officials may make an exception to this rule and designate other races during the year where three new tires will be allowed.
f) Any competitor who does not have a previously stenciled tire available for the race must notify the MSA Technical Inspector before hot laps start. A used tire that is subsequently run through both hot lap sessions will be stenciled as the previously stenciled tire for that race event. The hot laps must be run at speed (no ―Sunday‖ driving) and will be monitored by the appropriate MSA Official.
g) Anyone new after the first two races can start only two (2) NEW tires. The other tire must be used and stenciled as described in section 10-f above. If no suitable used tire is available, a new right rear tire only may be run through both hot lap sessions and stenciled as described in section 10-f above. This rule does not apply if the race is designated to allow three new tires as stated in section 10-e above
h) You must start the feature on the tires you qualify except for LF. i) If a tire is changed for any reason, it shall be replaced only with a tire that has been previously stenciled, marked, or labeled (for the first event only, a used but unlabeled tire may be used) and the car must start at the rear of the heat race or feature - whichever comes next. If a new, unmarked, or unlabeled tire is used, the car shall lose one (1) lap and start on the tail of the field.
MSA Rules 2009.docx Page: 14 of 15
Revised May 3, 2009
j) Once a car has qualified, no tire may be changed unless it is determined to be damaged or unsafe to race on by an MSA Official. The replacement of the tire must comply with section 13-i above. k) After one lap of the feature has completed, a car may change a tire for any reason. The replacement of the tire must comply with section 13-i above.
l) When a car attempts to qualify, it may have up to two (2) new tires stenciled, marked, or labeled by track officials. If a car does not use two (2) new tires, the unused portion or waived cannot be transferred or deferred to the next event.
m) Any car found with an unmarked or unlabeled tire, illegal compound, transferred or reproduced markings, or labels or markings or labels not placed on tires by MSA officials shall be disqualified and the owner and driver shall lose all points earned for that event and the owner shall NOT receive any prize money for that event.

[Lucky161]

Originally Posted by Geoff Kaiser Here is the best solution I can think of to help car counts both winged and not on pavement sprints. Taken from the midwest supermodified association rule book... 13) TIRE PROCEDURE a) For the purpose of this section, qualifying is defined as time trials, a consi if used, and heat races. b) At qualifying, each car shall have the tires marked or labeled by MSA officials in a manner or fashion they deem appropriate (stencil, stamping, painting, branding, etc.) Each event’s mark or label may be different in appearance and shall remain on the tire at all times. Only MSA markings will be allowed. Tires stenciled by other sanctioning bodies will not be counted as stenciled tires. c) MSA only stencils the RF, RR, and LR tires. The new tire rules below apply only to the RF, RR, and LR tires. The LF tire is always a ―freebie‖. d) At the first two MSA race events of the year, three new tires (one per corner, ie: RF, RR, and LR) will be stenciled. e) Each race thereafter, only two (2) NEW tires will be stenciled when you qualify. The other tire must be previously stenciled. Due to special circumstances, MSA officials may make an exception to this rule and designate other races during the year where three new tires will be allowed. f) Any competitor who does not have a previously stenciled tire available for the race must notify the MSA Technical Inspector before hot laps start. A used tire that is subsequently run through both hot lap sessions will be stenciled as the previously stenciled tire for that race event. The hot laps must be run at speed (no ―Sunday‖ driving) and will be monitored by the appropriate MSA Official. g) Anyone new after the first two races can start only two (2) NEW tires. The other tire must be used and stenciled as described in section 10-f above. If no suitable used tire is available, a new right rear tire only may be run through both hot lap sessions and stenciled as described in section 10-f above. This rule does not apply if the race is designated to allow three new tires as stated in section 10-e above h) You must start the feature on the tires you qualify except for LF. i) If a tire is changed for any reason, it shall be replaced only with a tire that has been previously stenciled, marked, or labeled (for the first event only, a used but unlabeled tire may be used) and the car must start at the rear of the heat race or feature - whichever comes next. If a new, unmarked, or unlabeled tire is used, the car shall lose one (1) lap and start on the tail of the field. MSA Rules 2009.docx Page: 14 of 15 Revised May 3, 2009 j) Once a car has qualified, no tire may be changed unless it is determined to be damaged or unsafe to race on by an MSA Official. The replacement of the tire must comply with section 13-i above. k) After one lap of the feature has completed, a car may change a tire for any reason. The replacement of the tire must comply with section 13-i above. l) When a car attempts to qualify, it may have up to two (2) new tires stenciled, marked, or labeled by track officials. If a car does not use two (2) new tires, the unused portion or waived cannot be transferred or deferred to the next event. m) Any car found with an unmarked or unlabeled tire, illegal compound, transferred or reproduced markings, or labels or markings or labels not placed on tires by MSA officials shall be disqualified and the owner and driver shall lose all points earned for that event and the owner shall NOT receive any prize money for that event.

That sure seems like a lot of rules to me. But if it works, I'd have no problem with it.

I would think that approaching the tire company, either the seller or the mfg and request a tire that is good for Xnumber of races or Xnumber of laps or Xnumber of something. While this would go against their desire to sell as many tires as they can, if it was sell a few tires vs. sell no tires I think they would agree. I think the IMCA tire rules work out pretty well for Hoosier in the long run. I am thinking IMCA tire rules in general not sprint car specific. We used to run IMCA sprints in this area and they were good, but for some reason they aren't running them around here anymore. And as I said to begin with, we don't have any paved tracks in this area to compare with good or bad.

[Geoff Kaiser]

Originally Posted by Lucky161 That sure seems like a lot of rules to me. But if it works, I'd have no problem with it. I would think that approaching the tire company, either the seller or the mfg and request a tire that is good for Xnumber of races or Xnumber of laps or Xnumber of something. While this would go against their desire to sell as many tires as they can, if it was sell a few tires vs. sell no tires I think they would agree. I think the IMCA tire rules work out pretty well for Hoosier in the long run. I am thinking IMCA tire rules in general not sprint car specific. We used to run IMCA sprints in this area and they were good, but for some reason they aren't running them around here anymore. And as I said to begin with, we don't have any paved tracks in this area to compare with good or bad.

Its a very simple rule. Its just spelled out thouroly in the rule book so there is no way to circumvent the rule.

[wbr]

here's an idea that would save more money than just tires.
No hotlaps.
Unload the cars and race them.
Less wear on the motors.
Less wear on the chassis and components.
Less methanol.
No hotels bills since time at the racetrack would be 4 hours or less.
and No testing.

Now my motor will last all season or 2 (or 3). I will only need to buy 3 new tires per race maximum. $50 for methanol per race.

This will probably be as popular as a turd in a punch bowl, but hey- its the internet, everyone has an opinion:34;

[short track scott]

I'd like to see narrower tires all four corners. 2" off of the fronts, 2 or 3" off the LR and 4 or 5" off the RR.
...at the risk of returning to the era of skinny tires and fat drivers, at least they had a car count!
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