[openwheelKT]

Originally Posted by Kirk Spridgeon By my quick count, the USAC schedule is made up of about 40-50% Indiana dates.

It probably is....just seems like more without looking. Point is that it is not national. If you aren't going to take it and make it a true national series, then this hurts your core fans at least in the short term.

[apexonephoto]

WoO run 74 times, to USAC's 42. I would like to see USAC or TNT or even just 410 sprints run closer to home. I live in Canada. You guys have had it too good. It will hurt the Indiana fans if USAC wants to go national, but running 28 more times a year can make it easier to make a living for a driver.

[cowboyhar69]

There's only one thing...Are the owners going to want to (or do they have the RESOURCES) to run 28 more times a year?

Tim Wolffrum aka Cowboy

[SteveD]

I wouldn't wish that (WOO) traveling circus on anyone. Everyone knew the "outlaw deal" was over when Ted dictated when and where and then the dreaded dry slick. A lot of "local" fans would pay the price if it could find its way to the purse but the status qo has not made it a reality. Were just fans and would support local higher paying purses but untill things come around we'll just take what we can get. I would like to keep the racing here and let the fans do the traveling !! Mo racin', Mo Money, No Mo Rain Steve & Christie Bloomington

[apexonephoto]

Originally Posted by cowboyhar69 There's only one thing...Are the owners going to want to (or do they have the RESOURCES) to run 28 more times a year? Tim Wolffrum aka Cowboy

Good point, that is one difference between the two. I still think there is more owner/drivers in WoO then in USAC. This is one thing I think (besides wings, for sponsor decals) that separate the two series. Also KKR and TSR racing are really the only USAC team(s) that have had a national sponsor. I know the Hoffman's P & G, Kroger deal was around for 10 years. I car owner who runs a local state wide kinda business can't afford the time away from his company to travel. Whereas a driver owned team will have to be one the road to survive. I think the KKR and TSR teams pulling into a track 10 minutes from the shop with an 18 wheeler to haul (1) midget says something. Either USAC isn't a national series, or those USAC teams are thinking big like a WoO team.

[riskybrisky5]

@Cowboyhar69: the deal is if they can get higher purses then the car owner can afford to add more races and travel. Example current USAC payout 5th place is 850.00 you say your team averages that 5th. 43 races you brought in $36,550.00 then you kept. 60% of that $21,930.00. I don't know what it cost's your team to run per night but lets use $700.00. 43x700=30,100.00 you are now in the whole 8,170.00. That is not counting any major crashes. But lets say USAC gets up to say an All Star purse and gets 2,000.00 for 5th. You add 28 races to the schedule and you average 5th. 2,000x71=$142,000.00 then your 60% is 85,200.00. Now your expenses lets say are the same per night 700x71=$49,700.00 Instead of losing you actually brought in some extra to take care of crashes. Now if they can pull off free pit passes and some show up money like the All Stars they could really make it nice for the car owners. Now with added 28 races and increased purse some drivers may make a living.

[openwheelKT]

Originally Posted by riskybrisky5 @Cowboyhar69: the deal is if they can get higher purses then the car owner can afford to add more races and travel. Example current USAC payout 5th place is 850.00 you say your team averages that 5th. 43 races you brought in $36,550.00 then you kept. 60% of that $21,930.00. I don't know what it cost's your team to run per night but lets use $700.00. 43x700=30,100.00 you are now in the whole 8,170.00. That is not counting any major crashes. But lets say USAC gets up to say an All Star purse and gets 2,000.00 for 5th. You add 28 races to the schedule and you average 5th. 2,000x71=$142,000.00 then your 60% is 85,200.00. Now your expenses lets say are the same per night 700x71=$49,700.00 Instead of losing you actually brought in some extra to take care of crashes. Now if they can pull off free pit passes and some show up money like the All Stars they could really make it nice for the car owners. Now with added 28 races and increased purse some drivers may make a living.

Kevin, your math has been pretty good on here lately. I'm just a fan so I don't know what it actually costs....I have an idea, but don't know for sure. I like seeing some of this laid out to have a better idea. I hope some folks in charge have been reading......

[riskybrisky5]

Here is what I have though that would be a perfect non wing travling series purse. With some bigger winning shows thrown in but this would be your standard purse.

1. 4,000.00
2. 3,500.00
3. 3,000.00
4. 2,500.00
5. 2,000.00
6. 1,800.00
7. 1,600.00
8. 1,400.00
9. 1,200.00
10. 1,000.00
11. 900.00
12. 800.00
13. 700.00
14. 600.00
15. 575.00
16. 575.00
17. 550.00
18. 550.00
19. 500.00
20. 500.00

A Feature purse 29,250.00

B Main purse is around 2,150.00 and then 100.00 per car that ran c or so on.
Transfers no money
1st transfer 400.00
2. 300.00
3. 250.00
4. 200.00
5-last 100.00 and everyone that shows up gets 100.00

I believe with that purse everyone can make money. But it has to be something special so the fans pack the stands. Think about it if you only got to see the top USAC guys when they were traveling through don't you think the stands would be full every time. I think they would. Now USAC just has to show other states how great the racing is and get more teams committed to following them. With this purse along with show up money and pit pass for driver and owner you could get some racers to follow you only I believe.

[FishBurger]

Originally Posted by riskybrisky5 I believe with that purse everyone can make money. But it has to be something special so the fans pack the stands. Think about it if you only got to see the top USAC guys when they were traveling through don't you think the stands would be full every time. I think they would. Now USAC just has to show other states how great the racing is and get more teams committed to following them. With this purse along with show up money and pit pass for driver and owner you could get some racers to follow you only I believe.

I dunno......that sounds awfully "risky Brisky" (yeh, pretty weak...I know :34; ). I'm just a fan and I'm not necessarily saying that I would be against the concept. Would you have to charge WoO like ticket prices (which I won't pay now for wings) to afford that total purse. Might be a problem....especially for 7 or 8 nights of ISW....or would that now popular idea be kicked to the curb? Would car owners, especially the present big ones, travel all over the U.S. if they can win no more than they now compete for in the midwest (primarily IN). That purse would be much better for those smaller teams not reasonably expecting to win often. Many of these folks have jobs that supporting such a far traveling series might require that they quit or hire a race team manager. Likewise, for crew chiefs and other supporting personnel.

I'm getting carried away here and certainly don't wish to be all negative (but, I did...didn't I?? ) on any suggestion floated to improve the financial position of participants (owners, drivers, crews, etc.). I just fear that such a purse structure, free back gates, travel expenses, etc. would likely require a ticket tab north of $40/per. With that, I doubt that fans will "pack the stands". If we don't, the promoters might find the nut difficult to crack. Of course they could always throw in 7 or 8 support series to help the cause. Then again, I could be wrong. I am a lot.

[riskybrisky5]

I dunno......that sounds awfully "risky Brisky" (yeh, pretty weak...I know ).

LOL I thought it was good. Fish I was told by Guy Webb that the Purse for the Hoosier fall Classic is I think around 44,000.00 I took it that he meant for Sat. night. Basically I think all they do is add 10000 to there normal purse for the winner and the rest is the same. The All Stars do not charge any more to get in than a USAC show that I am aware of. Now an Outlaw purse is way up there you would def. get the admission prices out of reach and seating capacity out of reach for the short tracks. But I think that is a reasonable purse that could be tweaked a little not raising the amount to get in. Like I said the fans are paying the same to see non wing as wing at the Burg for the 10,000 to win shows but the wing teams are getting twice the amount back as the non wing teams. If you ask me the fans will get more for there money at the non wing show. I know the drivers are hanging there neck out more for the non wing race, not even a comparison. So why shouldn't they be compensated for it?