[Roy Bleckert]

Originally Posted by DAD Kellen I think Stock blocks are the mini sprints of the future. Ride over to Du Quoin and check them out. It would be good to see you. Bill

Or maybe stock block , stock unported head is the TQ/Mini Sprint of the future ?

[bobby01]

I've been following this discussion since it started and I got a couple questions.
With all the turmoil that's been going on in my area with the lightning sprints I started looking the Ecotec deal.
First I read where Dustin Darnell said the Ecotec engines cost $1000. so how did these engines go from that to costing $8000. from Zero Motorsports and then $15000. from Revolution racing. I'm not saying that they are not worth that but how it's all ready getting out of control.
I've been around the racing game a long time and keeping cost under control has been the big problem since the days of the Offy. I hope that someone can come up with a solution before we all go broke.
The problem with automotive style engines is that car companies leave to much on the table to go get and it costs a lot of money to turn them into race engines and low mileage motorcycle engines are getting harder to get.
So what is the answer???
Bobby Layne
2014 MLS Champion

[Roy Bleckert]

Originally Posted by red70racer I've got Rusty Dukes 4th in C with a bone stock 10 degree layover Ecotec

if a bone stock Eco can out run 250 Midgets @ the CB

I think it bodes well that a HonDoo under my proposal can compete against National Midgets that are currently the hot set up , if it can not compete so be it , but if a 10k Hondoo could compete against our current crop of National Midgets , that should make it possible for more peeps to participate in National Midget Racing , without obsoleting any ones current National Midget equip , should be a Win Win for everyone .... but I could be missing something ?

[bobby01]

Roy
There is a kid here in Kansas City that has done the Honda 2.4 and damn he has spent a ton of money. I'm not sure that he wouldn't have spent less money buying a Esslinger.
With the C.N.C. ported head , aftermarket cams, rods,pistons,Ti valves, big springs crankshaft,Darton sleeves dry sump and all the other goodies where is he ahead?
Like I have said before how do we as a racing group that has the passion with all of are heart and soul about midget racing get the cost under control??
Bobby Layne

[Kellen Conover]

It looks like Rusty made the B main after transfering from the C on his Prelim night, then was in the E feature on Sat. Very Respectable showing, I also saw Chase Briscoe transferred thru 4 races in a Jeff Davis Honda as well.

And Bobby brings up a great point, we can talk about going down this route but what are we actually getting and is it the equivalent or better than what we already have.

[LEADERS EDGE]

600s 1000s and sprint cars with Rollcages and wings running 1/4 miles have done as much to bring downi midget car counts as costs. I too would like to have a disposable motor that I could buy for 2 grand and run 40 times then throw away and get another. Maybe that's out there but I haven't seen it. All I know is that every time a series like this starts you get about 15 to 22 cars and the majority of the people who were calling for change and saying that's all they need to go racing then never show up or support it. They usually come up with another excuse to not do what they weren't going to do to begin with. They then usually talk about how they wouldn't have done it that way. I hope this is a tipping point and good things come from this...I just think people need to quit worrying out how to save it and grow and enhance it instead. Before anyone thinks that I am just blowing smoke or running my mouth....I was the presenting sponsor for Montpeiler series last year. I actuallly spent money to support their concept. A concept I wasn't sold on at first.

[Ray3]

Originally Posted by bobby01 I've been following this discussion since it started and I got a couple questions. With all the turmoil that's been going on in my area with the lightning sprints I started looking the Ecotec deal. First I read where Dustin Darnell said the Ecotec engines cost $1000. so how did these engines go from that to costing $8000. from Zero Motorsports and then $15000. from Revolution racing. I'm not saying that they are not worth that but how it's all ready getting out of control. I've been around the racing game a long time and keeping cost under control has been the big problem since the days of the Offy. I hope that someone can come up with a solution before we all go broke. The problem with automotive style engines is that car companies leave to much on the table to go get and it costs a lot of money to turn them into race engines and low mileage motorcycle engines are getting harder to get. So what is the answer??? Bobby Layne 2014 MLS Champion

Whoever told you that any engine would cost $1,000 doesn't know what they are talking about. The cost savings for a Chevy Ecotec, Honda, Ford, Toyota etc car engine is NOT in most of the internal parts or the injection. Its in the cost of a block, crankshaft and cylinder head. New blocks for a typical midget pushrod engine are somewhere around $5,000.00. The cost of a typical midget crank is roughly $3,000.00 and a complete head will run you around $4,500.00. So you have $12,500 in and all you have is a shell of an engine.

By comparison, if you wanted to go as inexpensive as possible, you can grab a junkyard car engine for somewhere between $500 and $1500. That essentially gets you a block, crank and head. You will have to put in another $600 to $1500 into the block. You will need to put about $1300 into the head. If the crank is junk you may have to buy a new one for $350 or so. So just comparing the costs of a block, crank and head for a stock engine I'm at around $2400(best case) to $4650(worst case). This is still a far cry from $12500.00 and I am getting a virtually new engine and not a used up old midget engine that I bought for 12K but need to spend another $5k on just to get it to respectable status.

[polecar]

o.k. why not have all engines be 146 ish cu.in. if you want to buy an $35,000 go ahead. if you want to buy a $5,000 to $10,000 ecotec type go ahead. let them fight it out on the track. if the ecotec type engine wins then the $35,000 goes away. if both engines are close i would buy the ecotec type engine.

[Roy Bleckert]

Originally Posted by bobby01 Roy There is a kid here in Kansas City that has done the Honda 2.4 and damn he has spent a ton of money. I'm not sure that he wouldn't have spent less money buying a Esslinger. With the C.N.C. ported head , aftermarket cams, rods,pistons,Ti valves, big springs crankshaft,Darton sleeves dry sump and all the other goodies where is he ahead? Like I have said before how do we as a racing group that has the passion with all of are heart and soul about midget racing get the cost under control?? Bobby Layne

I think the key word you used is Kid , You & I were once Kids & I do not know about you , but I did a lot of dumb things when I was a Kid , Does his eng have EFI on it ? I may have a idea or two up my sleeve to make it work or I could be out in left field , the SoCal Drag race crowd are putting less than 10K in 600 + HP HonDoo engines , I think it is very possible to Make the HonDoo or other production engines work @ much less cost & be competitive with current equipment , that may precipitate a transition to a further opportunities to reduce costs down the line , if it is not tried we will never know !

[LEADERS EDGE]

Ok....how are they making the power? What is the life expectancy of the internals? Drag racing isn't 1/4 mile dirt track racing. The motor is subjected to different forces of sustained rpms and being bogged down on the lower ranges with rapid changes in rpms. I would be interested in getting the information from motors used in a dirt track environment