I don't mean to sound silly, but doesn't putting a $1500.00 head on a junkyard bottom end seem a little crazy? Again I've never had my hands on one of these style motors so I don't know.

Roy

I was thinking stock head and ports. Even ported the Echotec is way off in window size but it would have to help a bunch. With ti valves, springs, retainers, and cams about how much $4500.00 to $5000.00 per head?

Honest Dad himself

About 3K

Turboed they cram 800 HP on stock blocks , I do not think a midget eng. will get there any time soon .... but I could be wrong LOLLLL !!!!!!

Midgets don't have starters.

I see at least two classes of these things, Stock and an open class that could probably run with the Nationals if they chose to and if the National groups would let them run in their races.

The big question would be>>>> when the little 1.5 or 2 liter supercharged or turbocharged motors get into the system will racers be open enough to change the rules to allow them to run also?

Honest Dad himself

I do not like division splitting it dilutes the field, One midget division , one set of rules across the country that let's those who want to participate , be able to participate , throw the green flag & see who gets to the checkered flag first !

Roy

My reasoning for at least two classes. Automotive engines are much cheaper to purchase than motorcycle engines. The stock 2.4 liter motor is competitive with a late model Motorcycle engine. It takes another 1400cc to do it but what the heck. These cars won't cost a lot more than a Mini-Sprint and be a lot cheaper than some Micro-Midgets to own and operate. I would think when all of this info leaks out there will be a migration of Mini-Sprint and Micro-Midgets racers over to this new Midget Class.

This will probably mean very large fields of 40 to 60 cars. Many of these cars will be kids just getting into racing or grown ups just starting out also. These motors also leave a lot on the table as far as modification possibilities as shown at the Tulsa Shootout this year. It looked as if they had at least 4 or 5 cars racing out of their class, and that is not a good thing. I suspect that some people in Oklahoma and or maybe Illinois see this also and they have the clout to pull this kind of change over off from Micro and Mini Sprint to Midget thing off.

Somebody said something about clutches and starters. In the "B" or stock class I guess that would be OK. It would definitely help in moving the race along. However in the "A" class I would not be for it. You are old enough to have witnessed a few clutch explosions, they are not very pretty and can do a lot of damage to anything located in the immediate vicinity of the explosion, like feet and legs etc.

It all has to do with "Competition" if the different classes race together, cost, and performance all being pretty equal the best form of racing will simply win out and freedom of choice will have won.

Like many non professional racers I gave up running for championships years ago. That requires dedication and commitment, I am lacking in both. I for one am not advocating a National Road show type organization, only a class for Hobby or Sportsman type racers. If you are offended by either of these two terms this old world is big enough for you all to go out and race with groups like USAC or PowrI. We can call these cars Midgets because they are. I prefer to go out and race with armatures and if I can't beat them then I am going to go out and race myself (you might call that auto-racing) and have a lot of fun doing that.

PS "USAC" I hope you are taking notes>>> this post seems to be out distancing your post by about a 3 to 1 margin. A swing back to the grass root racing might just make sense right now.

Honest Dad himself

DAD- We prob have a lot of common ground , I would let the car eng compete as a Midget , maybe the motorcycle eng chain drive we can classify as a TQ Midget , I have had some discussions with some in the TQ ranks they may consider this as NZ runs chain drive TQ's IIRC , I would like to work in the direction of QM, 6oo micro, TQ , Midget , Sprint Car , Champ Dirt Car , as the open wheel divisions across the Country , under one set of rules for each division agreed by all sanctions & owners, I am not holding my breath waiting for this to happen LOLLLLL !!!!!!!

Still a good read here fellas.

Just my opinion, but I think USAC may be leaning towards the 2.4L production based engines in the future. At some point, in order to bring dollars back into the sport, corporate partners have to come back. Kevin Miller has been on a mission since his early days at USAC to get the 2.4L platform going. With that, many different manufacturers would be able to be apart of the game. With that, the announcer at the racetrack would be able to say Ford, Chevy, Honda, Mopar, etc, etc. With that, he could pursue those companies for sponsorship. These folks aren't going to spend money if they don't think they can get something back via ROI. MOPAR didn't sponsor the series because they loved midget racing. Neither did Toyota. Honda isn't doing it now just because midget racing is so great that they want to be a part of it.

At some point, the current style platform will not exist as the main platform. USAC has a dwindling car count and owners quitting every year because of expenses. Sooner or later, they are just going to draw a line in the sand and make a major change. They have done it before as an organization with other things. Kevin Miller certainly isn't above alienating his last 4-5 car owners to make a change like this. I don't see how it could hurt them as an organization in the long run. It will piss some people off and sting for a little while, but time heals all wounds. The silver crown division even seems to be rebuilding after the death penalty of the speedway cars.

The purses will be more in line with the cost of the car at that point as well. I don't know what these 2.4L engine platforms would cost, but if we just assumed they were $10-15K, a guy could build a nice race ready car for $25-30 brand new. Races pay $3k to win currently, that is 10% of the value of the car. That makes more sense to me.

In the end, midget racing has to find a way to bring people back => Kids specifically. Kids think drifting is cool these days...........I have watched a few of them on TV (for a few seconds) and I don't get it at all. Slide jobs in a midget are way more exciting. BUT, kids see it and love it. They can go buy it for a reasonable price. Work on it themselves with their buddies, Dad or Grandpa in their own garage. Upgrades are available for a reasonable price. Every car out there has corporate sponsorship on it. WHY? Is it because the race on Sunday, sell on Monday mentality still exists? If a midget had a 2.4L production based engine in it, would the local car dealerships get back into racing? Would it be more affordable to find a engine sponsor? Junkyard Jim's sponsoring people all around. Think about the car owners of the past. Cars had names and they usually came from the owners place of business. SELMA Shell sprint car, Ralph's Muffler Shop race team, etc.

PLEASE DO NOT GO OFF ON A TIRE CONVERSATION ABOUT MY NEXT COMMENT................Everyone wants the tire rules opened back up and USAC/POWRi to cut ties with Hoosier. The belief is that the price of tires will come down because of the competition. For conversation sake, lets just say that is 100% correct.............Wouldn't this 2.4L production based engine create the same thing? In theory? Suddenly every tuner shop in the country is a midget engine builder. Every junk yard and car dealership is a engine supplier. When you are out in the middle of Kansas in the middle of July, you can actually go and get a crank sensor at O'Reilly's instead of having to carry your own assortment of spare parts everywhere.

I think BMARA is going in the right direction here, it may not be noticed this year, but it will get better for them.

For the record (not bashing anyone), I don't like the idea of bolting 50-100 of lead on a 900lb car. Or any race car really. We have seen, and I have personally been a part of some wicked midget crashes. If that lead weight were ever to come off there and get into the stands..............what a nightmare that would be. I know there is a risk with crashing and any parts getting into the stands, but when you have something like lead that isn't necessary for competition get loose and get into the stands..........I think the lawyers would be lined up at the pit gate (they wouldn't come in because they don't want to sign the waiver).