[DonMoore10]

Wow.. I just fell over with the spins. And the Dr. Phil's of the racing world ultimately showed up on here off topic as usual. Guys, how many times are you going to keep going off topic with the same stupid idiotic nonsense. Is somebody making you read my posts? My identity is clearly stated along with the topic on the general topic page. Start ur own thread if you don't like it or better yet, post something itelligent on the subject for a change.

You can spin it anyway you choose, but there were tons of dirt short track midget races in Indiana and Ohio back in 2002 when I first got into this sport as an owner. It's been a downhill slide since then to four (4) sanctioned dirt midget races ( all sanctions) in Ohio and Indiana. You people still aren't getting it. Everybody in the United States follows the same rules with a few exceptions and I'm not going to get into that again. Do your research and you'll see that I am correct. Doesn't matter if it's (or was) USAC, NAMARS, XTRA or whatever, there are just four (4) dirt short track midget races left in two states. Statistics don't lie. This is about COSTS. Throw USAC out of the equation if that will make you happy, but it doesn't matter if you're racing USAC, BMARA or POWRi.. they are all in bed with each other with the rules and the tire monopoly and none of them have made one attempt to cut the costs of racing or have disclosed who's paying who to keep the costs up. You people refuse to recognize that. There has been a steady downhill slide in the car count at Sun Prairie.. 50% from 1998 to 2008. Duh? And that is a place where you really can't get any better with traditional and wonderful dedicated fans.

Again, you guys can spin it anyway you want, but if you get the costs down, you're gonna see more teams get into the sport, more cars at the track, more fans that come out to watch, more happy promoters and the sport will grow. This is so simple it's rediculous. With nearly 5,000 hits on this topic, looks to me like you guys that keep defending the big bucks are out numbered big time.

[Ovalmeister]

Originally Posted by Kirk Spridgeon And there we have it. The great idea of running dirt midgets in Indiana went over quite well when that Montpelier race happened, huh? Quite honestly, why would Gas City or Kokomo or Bloomington or wherever stop doing what's working for them and voluntarily lose money by running midget shows? I love Midget Week, but the crowds that week are NOTHING compared to Sprintweek. Hopefully, with a fairly low supply of good, high-quality races, the demand will go up in the near future. Remember that Midget Week struggled mightily for a few years before gaining the momentum it now has. Midgets are second-string in Indiana, so we have to take what we can get. Sprint cars are king, and that is something that is not going to change anytime soon! Here it is: Unless there is an emergence of a new sanctioning body, you should not expect more races!! It's that simple. I think the level of competition and the schedule of dirt midget races (in the Midwest as a whole) have improved for a few years now, but I never heard any complaining before now....?

1.) I'm confused. Are you against midget racing in Indiana or just against non-USAC midget racing in Indiana?

2.) Why would Gas City, Bloomington or Kokomo voluntarily lose money running midgets? When I ran them, they basically paid there own purse with their pit pass money. And I'd be pretty confident in saying this: The crowds at these tracks would be better if it were non-wing sprints and midgets, verses street stocks, bombers, etc...(no offense street stock and bomber guys!)

3.) You said midgets are 2nd string in Indiana. Wrong. They are at least 5th or 6th string. And that is a pathetic situation. Most midget manufacterers are based in Indiana. But no weekly dirt midget racing in Indiana. Brilliant.

4.) You said sprint cars are king in Indiana. I agree and think it's great. You can buy a good used sprinter and motor, race 2-3 times a week until you get sick of it. Why is that? OOOOOOHHHH. I think I see the problem! BECAUSE 99% OF THE NON WING RACES ARE NOT USAC! And the same thing can't be done with midgets....why?

5.) You said that until the emergence of a midget sanction body, we should not expect any more midget races. Who sanctions the non wing sprints at all these weekly tracks? Why does there have to be a sanctioning body?

6.) You said you haven't heard any complaining until now? Seriously? Why do you think there are now 2 TQ clubs and 3-4 mini sprint clubs? How many of those owners would be midget owners if there was someplace to run them weekly and cost effectively? (cheaper motors and regional travel). BTW, last time I checked, ALL TQ's and mini sprints run DIRT.

Just trying to clear up my confusion,
much love,
David. :thumb

[Kirk Spridgeon]

Originally Posted by Ovalmeister 1.) I'm confused. Are you against midget racing in Indiana or just against non-USAC midget racing in Indiana? 2.) Why would Gas City, Bloomington or Kokomo voluntarily lose money running midgets? When I ran them, they basically paid there own purse with their pit pass money. And I'd be pretty confident in saying this: The crowds at these tracks would be better if it were non-wing sprints and midgets, verses street stocks, bombers, etc...(no offense street stock and bomber guys!) 3.) You said midgets are 2nd string in Indiana. Wrong. They are at least 5th or 6th string. And that is a pathetic situation. Most midget manufacterers are based in Indiana. But no weekly dirt midget racing in Indiana. Brilliant. 4.) You said sprint cars are king in Indiana. I agree and think it's great. You can buy a good used sprinter and motor, race 2-3 times a week until you get sick of it. Why is that? OOOOOOHHHH. I think I see the problem! BECAUSE 99% OF THE NON WING RACES ARE NOT USAC! And the same thing can't be done with midgets....why? 5.) You said that until the emergence of a midget sanction body, we should not expect any more midget races. Who sanctions the non wing sprints at all these weekly tracks? Why does there have to be a sanctioning body? 6.) You said you haven't heard any complaining until now? Seriously? Why do you think there are now 2 TQ clubs and 3-4 mini sprint clubs? How many of those owners would be midget owners if there was someplace to run them weekly and cost effectively? (cheaper motors and regional travel). BTW, last time I checked, ALL TQ's and mini sprints run DIRT. Just trying to clear up my confusion, much love, David. :thumb

1. I'm for Midget Racing in Indiana. And that means I'm for GOOD midget racing in Indiana. Not some distortion of it that makes all of midget racing look bad.

2. OK, so midgets pay their own purse. Well, modifieds in Indiana pay their own purse plus most of the sprint car purse. And they bring a lot more people. Seriously, the weekly crowds at Indiana tracks were not far behind Midget Week crowds.

3. That's probably right. I was giving midgets a break because I like them.

4. That's a great idea! I bet no one, including me, has ever thought of that before! I wonder why it's never happened!! Haha here's a novel idea: why don't you ask those tracks instead of blaming USAC?

5. There has to be a sanctioning body because none of those tracks are going to run midgets weekly. That's what I just told you. They'll have to run at different tracks until they have a bigger fan base and are a trusted headliner series. And getting those races will not happen unless tracks believe that the series has a devoted following....That devoted group can only be guaranteed by a sanctioning body!

Does anybody remember 16th Street Speedway? How about the USAC Regional Midget Series (the dirt one)? It looks to me like those failed....you guys are gonna have to think a little differently than this "well, just book some races" mentality. What can be done differently this time to make sure it wouldn't fall flat on its face again?

[Ovalmeister]

Originally Posted by Kirk Spridgeon 1. I'm for Midget Racing in Indiana. And that means I'm for GOOD midget racing in Indiana. Not some distortion of it that makes all of midget racing look bad. 2. OK, so midgets pay their own purse. Well, modifieds in Indiana pay their own purse plus most of the sprint car purse. And they bring a lot more people. Seriously, the weekly crowds at Indiana tracks were not far behind Midget Week crowds. 3. That's probably right. I was giving midgets a break because I like them. 4. That's a great idea! I bet no one, including me, has ever thought of that before! I wonder why it's never happened!! Haha here's a novel idea: why don't you ask those tracks instead of blaming USAC? 5. There has to be a sanctioning body because none of those tracks are going to run midgets weekly. That's what I just told you. They'll have to run at different tracks until they have a bigger fan base and are a trusted headliner series. And getting those races will not happen unless tracks believe that the series has a devoted following....That devoted group can only be guaranteed by a sanctioning body! Does anybody remember 16th Street Speedway? How about the USAC Regional Midget Series (the dirt one)? It looks to me like those failed....you guys are gonna have to think a little differently than this "well, just book some races" mentality. What can be done differently this time to make sure it wouldn't fall flat on its face again?

You missed one.
Seriously, I think I need to clarify. I'm not saying every track runs midgets weekly. That would not and could not ever work, anywhere. I'm saying run one week at gas city, next week kokomo, next week bloomington, etc...
The car count determines the purse. So maybe 7 tracks have midgets, that pay for themselves, 3 times a year. It would be like a free division for promotors to advertise. I would guess after 2-3 seasons the car count would be good. I think there is enough midget interest to do that in Indiana.

When I was getting ready to move back to Indiana, (4-5 years ago) I had a Stealth/Gaerte lined up to buy, from a guy in Colorado. My brother in Indiana asked me where I planned to run it? Then I did some homework. Needless to say the sale did not go through. This is America man! How can you not run a midget in Indiana for Gods sake! :O:

BTW, not blaming USAC for anything. I like some of USAC's stances, don't like some others. (that's a whole new thread). Nothing personal. I was just stating the fact that non wing sprints run every week in Indiana. Most of those races are not USAC.

Hugs,
David.

[DonMoore10]

Kokomo Speedway has run non sanctioned midgets the last few seasons 2-3 times in the year. I'm hearing a whole lot of "this can't happen" and "this won't work" etc etc. with that attitude, I don't know how anything will ever get off dead center. Montpelier would be a track that would be a good starting place. The idea of open comp races at various tracks is not a bad idea to get things off the ground. But there needs to be some major changes in the monopoly tire deal, who gets tire deals, who gets free tires and who pays full price. Also tire size, compound and wheel size. If Hoosier can sell the Focus tires for around $100, they can sell tires to regular midget guys for the same. ***. Those items being addressed would go a long ways in getting some costs down. If none of this has been tried then, some testing is in order to find what will work economically.

Also I would like to see entry fees and pit passes abolished for owners and drivers. I could go along with crew buying passes I think.

[6157]

Originally Posted by DonMoore10 Also I would like to see entry fees and pit passes abolished for owners and drivers. I could go along with crew buying passes I think.

:rolling:rolling:rolling:rolling:rolling:rolling:r olling

[hairracer44]

Don You are living in fantasy land if you think the pit passes are going to go away as far as entry fee that is to be seen.

I would love to see midgets run the dirt in Indiana on a regular basis but the problem that it comes down to is(and I'm talking unsanctioned races) right now the midget would have to play second fiddle to the sprint car. This brings up your next issue of purse, I really don't see a track owner paying the midgets as much as the sprint on the same night so now you have sprints running for $1200 to $1400 and the Midgets if there lucky running for $800 to win. I know what your going to say next don't pay the sprints that money and even the purses out. That's not fair to the sprint guys to lessen their purse.

Say you could get one of the Indiana tracks to put the midget as a second fiddle for less money would you show up on a regular basis and what is the lowest amount of money you would run for to get you foot in the door for a season to prove to Indiana track owners and promoters that this would work. I'm saying that if you can prove the midgets to be a viable show that could stand alone on an opposing night to a sprint show would you do it. Or if the midget prove to be a good show with sprints and draw well enough to get the purse up as a open wheel double header.

I know the Keith Ford of Paragon gets on IOW so if you or any other track owner are interested in running midgets lets figure out how to make it work. If you are a track owner and don't want to run midgets I and I'm sure others on here would like to know why not?

[DonMoore10]

I've already explained my position on owners and drivers and entry fees and pit passes. I am perfectly serious about this, but not exclusively for midgets. I'm talking all owners and drivers everywhere. There is absolutely no reason why this practice should continue. Why should the "stars of the show", that is, car owners (the cars) and drivers pay for an entry fee and pit pass? Forget about "yeah, that's the way it's always been done" attitude. Does Joe the water truck guy pay for a pit pass? Why not? He's in the pits also. How about the pit steward, does he buy a pass? Why not? He's in the pits also. Guys, you need to stop thinking about how things have always been done and start thinking about how things ought to be. The promoters will still make plenty of money on all the others that are in the pits.

Kokomo ran midgets with $1000 to win. Like I said before, there needs to be some changes as far as tires and wheels go. Read my other posts on this. I live in Cleveland, OH. It's 300 miles to Indianapolis, 500 miles to St. Louis. I'm willing to travel, obviously.

[TQ97]

I'm not saying I think it will ever change, but I've always wondered this too. Why do the stars (drivers/owners) pay to get in to put on the show? There's no other sport/form of entertainment that I know of where that happens.

[ChaseTheRace!]

Why don't you do something about it, instead of telling everyone how it should be. Nobody agrees with you, so no one is going to do what you 'recommend' unless you do it yourself. Start a local midget series, that doesn't charge drivers and owners for pit passes, go to Indiana local tracks asking for a race, and see what they say. My money goes on the tracks saying, What, Get lost. Your talking about changing something that's been in racing since day one. As far as pit passes, I wouldn't complain about paying $25, Turkey Night pit passes were $45 for member and $65 for non member. And question, you don't even run USAC, why are you so concerned about USAC?