[racefan20]

Frankly non-wing sprint cars are a niche sport within a niche sport. All i am hearing about this is "I dont like it because its always been done this way" etc. Have you ever taken a look at the crowd when you are at a non-winged sprint car race. I'm pretty sure the average age is somewhere north of 50. Rarely do you even see young people at the races unless they are there with someone older. Tell me the last time you saw any teenagers or 20 somethings there on a date. They dont want to invest the time in a 4-5 hour show. Anything that the promoters can do to get the time of the show down to the time it takes to go to a movie or something like that needs to be done. The consequences of not doing that is that our sport dies as the current generation dies off. Spridge gets that. I read where he times each race to see how long it takes for them to run their show. I'm fairly sure thats where the 2 at a time qualifying came from. Limiting the number of support classes or pushing them back in the schedule to get to the sprint feature earlier has happened sometimes too. Even the move to showing all the USAC shows on Flo is intended on getting the younger folks interested. WoO has already done most of these things and I assume most of you are smart enough to realize that they are much more popular and well attended than non-wing racing. Of course there are other reasons for that too like the relative rarity of WoO races in a particular area. USAC cant go to many areas of the country due to the lack of non-wing cars to fill the fields in most areas outside Pa and California/Arizona. WoO runs a fast show, there is usually very little down time and usually 1 or 0 support classes. At high car count races like sprint week it would save alot of time, at races with 24-25 cars, not as much. The reality is whether you like it or not the resistance that most of you have to make changes will eventually kill our sport.

[Charles Nungester]

My local track and several I've been too The crowd doesn't show up till about seven thirty anyway. You got a seven start time and qualifying doesn't break it. What's the problem?

They/Them who don't like qualifying, think it's boring etc can show up at start time and be none the wiser. Why does i even matter in their book?

I will agree though, it takes a lot of laps and lot of $$ to qualify.


Like I said, I was always the watch each individual car, listen to who the driver was and his sponsors, car type. motor and then try to hear his time. Always a thrill to me when someone came out late when you didn't think it could be done and QUICK TIME! Also hearing how hard and long they stay on it. If their motor bogs like on the backstraight at eldora. Last WoO race I seen at Burg, Sweet and Gravels motors were the only ones that didn't bog coming off two. Guess who won.

[racefan20]

Originally Posted by Charles Nungester My local track and several I've been too The crowd doesn't show up till about seven thirty anyway. You got a seven start time and qualifying doesn't break it. What's the problem? They/Them who don't like qualifying, think it's boring etc can show up at start time and be none the wiser. Why does i even matter in their book? I will agree though, it takes a lot of laps and lot of $$ to qualify. Like I said, I was always the watch each individual car, listen to who the driver was and his sponsors, car type. motor and then try to hear his time. Always a thrill to me when someone came out late when you didn't think it could be done and QUICK TIME! Also hearing how hard and long they stay on it. If their motor bogs like on the backstraight at eldora. Last WoO race I seen at Burg, Sweet and Gravels motors were the only ones that didn't bog coming off two. Guess who won.

Chuck at your local track you can show up at 7 and still get a good seat and thats true for most local shows except maybe Putnamville. At a USAC race 90% of the time thats not true and the USAC shows are what I am talking about here. MSCS does group qualifying and the 2 at a time qualifying is an idea in between the two. I'm sure with just two cars out there you can hear each cars engine noise. If you are so stuck in your ways that you dont care about the future of the sport and only care about what you want then go ahead and rail on about what you want.

[chrismattlin]

First of all, if you consider yourself a national series, you must qualify, otherwise it's just another race. Can you imagine IndyCar or NASCAR using a handicapping system? It would be Bush League.

Remember, back in the day, USAC didn't invert any cars. Serious, competitive, strict, old-school racers never liked/wanted inverts, but we got 'em to improve the shows for the fans. And I think 6 is a good amount to invert. The fastest 8 qualifiers still have to make passes to transfer through their heat race; somewhat competitive cars get a chance to show their stuff by starting at the sharp end of a heat race; slower, uncompetitive cars and drivers finding their feet amongst the big dogs are lined up in the back out of harm's way. It's a good system that throws a bone to all the stakeholders who spent money to be at the track.

I prefer single car qualifying for the reasons others have mentioned. Sprint Week qualifying gives me goosebumps as most of those guys never push it farther than they do at that time. Make-it-or-break-it time! Giddyup! As far as qualifying 2 at a time? It doesn't bother me, but it should be limited to, as Funk said, tracks 3/8 mile or larger, or some extenuating circumstance such as very large car count or weather.

P.S. Be nice to each other!!! Because we're all and I wouldn't want to lose any one else to sour grapes. We've lost enough great contributors to this already.
(Now get off my lawn! )

[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by racefan20 Chuck at your local track you can show up at 7 and still get a good seat and thats true for most local shows except maybe Putnamville. At a USAC race 90% of the time thats not true and the USAC shows are what I am talking about here. MSCS does group qualifying and the 2 at a time qualifying is an idea in between the two. I'm sure with just two cars out there you can hear each cars engine noise. If you are so stuck in your ways that you dont care about the future of the sport and only care about what you want then go ahead and rail on about what you want.

Like I said Hoover, How does qualifying ahead of race time affect the future of the sport.?

Im not railing. Just saying my view. But you have no problem letting others demean those with one. Why half he posters just lurk anymore.

The group qualifying is pretty common now for local. Racers wanted it and is just part of the normal hot lap session.

[BrentTFunk]

I am all for quick shows. I hate cramming 3 hours of fun into 5 hours. I can't remember the last time a USAC race went 5 hours, with the exception of Putnamville SprintWeek. That show had a lengthy rain delay, and really got restarted quicker than I expected. Things are way quicker than the old days.
I agree with racefan 20 that the outlaws draw more people, because they aren't around much. I went to 2 outlaw races this year, and there were more young people, but probably the same ratio from old to young. I think that is common in most forms of racing.

[yeleyfan76]

[QUOTE=chrismattlin;559054]First of all, if you consider yourself a national series, you must qualify, otherwise it's just another race. Can you imagine IndyCar or NASCAR using a handicapping system? It would be Bush League.

Asking for a friend. Do the National series’ that we are talking about run a nauseating amount of laps to determine the winner?? If you run 500 miles/ laps why in the world would you need any thing else to set the field using your theory. I’d actually think handicapping those series would be even easier since it’s always the same guys and they have endless laps to get it done.

Also is the Chili bowl just another event?

It’s clear this is an agree to disagree thread as there is no solution to make everyone happy. The same old same old has its fans, and progressing away from that has its fans. Never will everyone be happy but it sure is fun trying to find ways to accomplish it.

[chrismattlin]

Originally Posted by yeleyfan76 Asking for a friend. Do the National series’ that we are talking about run a nauseating amount of laps to determine the winner??

No, because I love racing. A sport of meritocracy and earning glory. Laps are (almost) never nauseating to me. I watch every day, every minute of Indy 500 practice, for instance. (Yeah, I'm a nerd. )

No offense (because most local shows are this way), but if you have to start the fast guys on the tail, then your field of competitors is either weak, or at the least, the variation between the "haves" and "have-nots" is a wide chasm. And that is fine and dandy if you're not a national touring series; if you are, then the competition should be somewhat close throughout the field. Then everyone involved asks the question, "What's a fair way to line everyone up for these races?". Qualifying.

Originally Posted by yeleyfan76 If you run 500 miles/ laps why in the world would you need any thing else to set the field using your theory.

How fair would it be to see Dalton Kellett and Jay Howard lead the field in to turn 1 at the Indianapolis 500, only to see them wipe out *actual* contenders for the win. Or how about Daytona? Don't you think most every team wants to qualify up front in order to avoid "the big one"?

Big time racing and qualifying go hand in hand; handicapping (or any random system) is covering up some type of shortcoming.

[flagboy55]

One thing is obvious. We’re a product of our environment. 76 grew up with what I agree must have been an entertaining format. I grew up with single car qualifying, I have no problem with it when done properly. It’s been brought up before, but I’ll say it again, when Dad first started taking us to USAC races, I believe only 28 cars made the show and heats were completely inverted. This would’ve been mid 70’s. Please correct me if my memory is wrong. But back then I did become a fan of single car qualifying. Asking Dad who’s that, as they rolled out to qualify and then seeing some of the heroes I read about in the Speed Sport come out with the spotlight shining only on them with the consequences of putting it on the trailer if they underperformed. Another thing I always say is I doubt very seriously if you ever heard a racer say is that it will be more entertaining for the fans if we do it this way. It seems that they always want to do what helps improve their odds of success. I’m completely flabbergasted that fans accept all the straight up starts in short track racing, but they keep selling tickets so it must be me. I do agree that USAC has the best format going, and I hope it doesn’t change anytime soon regardless of if it’s one or two cars qualifying

[Charles Nungester]

I grew up with single car qualifying with the second car pushed off as the first car passed the line for their first lap. They lined em up fastest in the back and Gaines, Wilkerson, Milburn or Gilstrap were ofen those people.

They Ran a fast car dash for a trophy.

Those cars made up four of the top five at the end of the night more often than not.

Former IOWer IMZIE who's been gone a few years now, Told me that if any of them ran a second faster than their qualifying time at any time in the night, They were DQ'd. Also said that was done with stop watches, but it is what it is.