[TQ29m]

Originally Posted by jdull99 I actually thought the head and NECK restraints were even more to do with avoiding spinal injuries???

Having used about all the restraints, and I mean using them, I get the feeling that everything but the old donut, whatever you want to call it, is about as effective as anything has come out of all this, most guys you see with a HANS device, wears it so loose, they can turn their head like an owl, the super duper seat restraints are so rigid, I don't feel safe, you have very little movement at all, it makes you the "target", so to speak, probably the most rigid parts in a race car, and the driver is tied to this, my feelings are that a lot of "safety mandated stuff", I wouldn't want my name signed to it, the "donut", was a PITA, but at least you had some movement, and you were still protected by your helmet, and it was supported by the donut, resting on your clavicles, not being clamped in a vise. JMHO! Bob

[Backitin]

Tell you what someone new to the racing world might think that concussions and racers with concussions abound at all race tracks, the way this post went. Its rare to suffer a true concussion and something that can never completely be taken out of life. For every guy that rings his bell racing there are 100's of normal folks leading a normal life that do the same thing.
Theres only so much you can do before the sport is no longer the same, any sport. IMO Most all off track "studies" are crap. As far as I'm concerned having my head clamped straight ahead is more dangerous then being able to move a bit and not being totally blind to the sides. I'm sure the seat and restraint manufacturers would like to go as overboard as possible. I wish someone would mandate that you keep buying my new and improved product even if as a consumer you don't want it and are doing enough giving the parameters to protect yourself.

[Aces&Eights]

Originally Posted by Tim First of all, I'm a firm believer that it is best to have some sort of "mechanism" to keep the driver's head within the confines of the cockpit/roll cage at all times. I have concluded that the head nets provide satisfactory protection to achieve that goal. While not necessarily "against" the full containment seats I believe their current design could pose some hazard that they are actually attempting to prevent. As I read the SFI 39.2 specification, the head restraint is supposed to accept a certain load, imposed to simulate impact, with deformation to be limited to the specification. Essentially, what I glean from this is the seat head restraint/halo is supposed to be very stiff. My issue with this stems from research by Dr. Bennet Omalu that suggests that concussions are not only caused by outward impact but that the brain, which is suspended in a viscous liquid inside the skull, can "rattle around" inside the skull, breaking through the liquid and impacting the inside of the skull causing brain injury when the head is moving and suddenly stops, as if hitting the head rest during a violent episode. The padding on both the seat and inside the helmet cushion this to some degree but I'm not sold that the full containment seat prevents what I've described from happening and, quite possibly, might promote this type of brain injury. My opinion is that the head nets offer the same protection without as sudden a stop of the head thereby lessening the possibility of internal brain injury. There are other issues with the full containment seats that I question, such as cockpit egress in both an emergency (fire) and extrication after a wreck. I like the fact that the head nets can be easily removed to allow exit. I will say, though, that I am a fan of the shoulder supports and other aspects of the seats. It is just my opinion that I would like to see more research done on seat construction with regard to head restraint before I spend the required dollars to get a seat that complies with the specification. Tim Simmons

Finally someone who gets it. This is exactly what I've been saying, only better. Thank you. Another issue I have with the FC is it essentially holds your head upright like driving a nail and so if you don't have the halo bars a c0ckpit incursion could be disatrous.

[TKRacing]

I think we saw less compression fractures in the days of the donut. The new stuff leave a big gab allowing that area to compress. Not saying that's the only place the compression fractures happen, but we sure see them a lot more now.

[TQ29m]

I agree, and I think with the seemingly change in thinking of how belts should be installed, could increase your observation, I had a couple of drivers who were under the impression that shoulder belts should pull you down in the seat, instead of the lap belt, it took a lot of explaining to get them to see how and where they were wrong, I have no idea where this idea came from. Tim, in response to your observations, with a donut and the side nets, the ever present sore throat was the worst thing I ever got, and they were some pretty scary crashes, or so I was told, I didn't watch. Bob

[ossuks]

To add one more fact to what Tim has stated....By the way, I have 5 credit hours in Anatomy which qualifies me to be an expert...A brain traveling 100 mph suspended in fluid does need a "buffer". If the head is surrounded securely and with the addition of neck restraints, will not move, when the head comes to a sudden stop the brain will still impact the skull (because the brain is still traveling 100mph)....Thus, a brain injury can occur without the head making contact with an object.

Totally off this subject but having the same idea of something to slow down an impact versus a solid object to stop a car traveling 100mph....Everyone would agree that the Catch fence at Eldora and Lawrenburg are the "best" in the mid west, and almost all would agree that the Catch Fence at North Vernon(Twin City?) is the worst....Provided the front stretch has ample strength to protect the spectators....Would you rather contact a solid object at 100mph or something that would catch your car like a net (Ask Levi, the tumble he took years ago at Twin City was HUGE, but when he got to the catch fence it sit his car down like a mother laying a baby in a crib?) Maybe, just maybe, short tracks would be safer with a Catch Fence that absorbed the impact versus solid pools to contact? Also, at Twin City you are not going to bounce back to the track to have impact with other cars?

[jjones752]

SFI-rated padding is very stiff, and is considered the best option for decelerating a body in motion, be it to absorb the shock of a spinal column into the seat bottom or the head off of a headrest or roll cage; it is designed to be firm enough so that it crushes to absorb the blow but not so soft that it rebounds or bottoms out, much like the lining of your helmet is supposed to work. 100-to-zero is a difficult feat to accomplish without some compromise; no support and bad things happen, like a basal skull fracture or impact with something REALLY hard, like a concrete wall. Netting could be the answer but could also allow too much give, or allow the head to be forced out of the "envelope" with dire consequences. A stiff aluminum or carbon structure may not deflect enough but that's where the ridgid foam comes in, between seat structure and cranium. If soft, flexible structures are the best answer (not saying they aren't but I don't think the seat manufacturers/safety foundations are completely in the dark) why is Levi endorsing SFI compliance, given his experience at Twin Cities? One other thing: how much can a driver actually move his head in a non-containment seat to avoid the dreaded cockpit incursion?

[Kinser11]

Dose this mean they will no longer have the Gas & Brake pedals inside the car? For years these two things have had a lot to do with handling.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Z-man I think they should leave the adjusters in the cockpit, just not connect them to anything.

Classic.

[ThrowbackRacingTeam]

Big fan of concussion protocol. That might have saved Kevin Doty who had several leading up to his death.
Otherwise, a waiver should state the safety personnel/ equipment the track is providing and from that point, the signee assumes all risk. If that isn't valid in court, then what is?