[bsmith8]

Originally Posted by Rpracing1 Obviously you have never attended the Hut Hundred, Jason Leffler Memorial, or upcoming Shamrock Classic race. We love Midgets!

You forgot that little indoor race in Tulsa.

[trannyman]

Originally Posted by Aces&Eights I think D2 is cool, but i had no idea they only allow engines straight from the junk yard, or did I misunderstand that part? As far as allowing diverse powerplants, I'm all for that too, just don't like being told I have to throw it away when it needs a refresh. I'm still learning about open wheel racing and I have a long way to go and I must admit I find the midget side of things the most confusing. The problem I'm having most, aside from traditional sprints is the smaller, smaller, smaller. I know midgets have a long tradition going way back, but why have something like a mini-sprint running the same powerplant or are they different too? I personally would never use MC/Chain Drive in a midget, not because I don't see them as capable or noncompetitive, they are, but it just doesn't resonate with me that's all. To me an MC belongs on a kart or something w/no suspension. Thanks for helping me begin to understand the open wheel world a little bit more.

To say straight from a junk yard is extreme.Yes,they have to remain stock,as far as internals go,but that don't mean you can't freshen one up.you just have to use oem equivalent parts.for example,if you don't blow one up,you can overhaul it in the off season and use it again.the nice thing is if you do blow one up,go to salvage yard ,but another(at an affordable cost),and freshen it up to your liking.ready to go.

[Aces&Eights]

Originally Posted by trannyman To say straight from a junk yard is extreme.Yes,they have to remain stock,as far as internals go,but that don't mean you can't freshen one up.you just have to use oem equivalent parts.for example,if you don't blow one up,you can overhaul it in the off season and use it again.the nice thing is if you do blow one up,go to salvage yard ,but another(at an affordable cost),and freshen it up to your liking.ready to go.

Awesome! Somewhere in this thread I understood someone say that unless the engine was readily available in a salvage yard with low miles you were screwed, implying you couldn't open it up. As long as we aren't advocating disposable/sealed engines, I can accept a lot of diversity. I still think the GM 3.8 V6 would be interesting, but JMO. Peace and thanks for continuing my education.

[trannyman]

No problem,but definitely research,with the right people, to be sure.I've talked to a few people and that was the understanding I had.

[jjones752]

Aces, Motorcycle power, and it's application in 4-wheel racing is a very broad field; it seems like what you think of when you are picturing a chain-drive 4-wheeler is close to an Outlaw Kart. One cylinder, no suspension, no way does it belong among "real" cars. That's probably how most people who aren't completely sold out to non-wing open wheel dirt track racing see most of the cars we race; I can't tell you how many times I've been at a gas station with my open trailer and some guy asks "Is that a dune buggy?", and I sigh and give them the best education I can in the time it takes to put 16 gallons of Unleaded in my Sonoma. Go to my profile and look at my albums, then tell me, at certain angles, if you can tell if it's a Midget or a "Mini Sprint"; I don't call my car a Mini or Lightning Sprint, or even a D2 because I have 340 more CC than they'll let me run and they don't feel sorry enough for me to give me that much of an advantage, so I prefer to call it a "Montpelier Midget" because that's exactly what it is. Heck, I even burned the wing spuds off to leave no doubt. Once I get the electronics debugged I figure my Hayabusa should put out close to 200HP and the good 1000's are probably right up there too, which is just about what an Engler-injected Ecotec should do too. How the power gets to the wheels should be (in my opinion) irrelevant. A lot of guys think your idea of putting a transmission in a Sprint Car is worse than not resonant, it's downright sacrilegious so where do you get off saying chain drive "doesn't resonate"? Just kidding, I hope you figured out by now I mean no harm...
I understand your confusion, I see Modified and Late Model guys looking at us in the pits every weekend like we have 2 heads but hang around with us for a while, get your butt in the seat of one of these things (Midget, Sprint Car, take your pick) and you might begin to understand. I got a chance 2 seasons ago to spend a night in a Spike powered by a Focus after my old oil-cooled GSXR 1100 commited suicide on the front stretch the week before and honestely, I couldn't really tell the difference, other than it had power steering, which I now covet. Could I tell the difference if it was one of Keith Kunz' TRD's? I imagine I could but that's not what we do at this level. I'd sure like to give it a try though...

[Aces&Eights]

Originally Posted by jjones752 Aces, Motorcycle power, and it's application in 4-wheel racing is a very broad field; it seems like what you think of when you are picturing a chain-drive 4-wheeler is close to an Outlaw Kart. One cylinder, no suspension, no way does it belong among "real" cars. That's probably how most people who aren't completely sold out to non-wing open wheel dirt track racing see most of the cars we race; I can't tell you how many times I've been at a gas station with my open trailer and some guy asks "Is that a dune buggy?", and I sigh and give them the best education I can in the time it takes to put 16 gallons of Unleaded in my Sonoma. Go to my profile and look at my albums, then tell me, at certain angles, if you can tell if it's a Midget or a "Mini Sprint"; I don't call my car a Mini or Lightning Sprint, or even a D2 because I have 340 more CC than they'll let me run and they don't feel sorry enough for me to give me that much of an advantage, so I prefer to call it a "Montpelier Midget" because that's exactly what it is. Heck, I even burned the wing spuds off to leave no doubt. Once I get the electronics debugged I figure my Hayabusa should put out close to 200HP and the good 1000's are probably right up there too, which is just about what an Engler-injected Ecotec should do too. How the power gets to the wheels should be (in my opinion) irrelevant. A lot of guys think your idea of putting a transmission in a Sprint Car is worse than not resonant, it's downright sacrilegious so where do you get off saying chain drive "doesn't resonate"? Just kidding, I hope you figured out by now I mean no harm... I understand your confusion, I see Modified and Late Model guys looking at us in the pits every weekend like we have 2 heads but hang around with us for a while, get your butt in the seat of one of these things (Midget, Sprint Car, take your pick) and you might begin to understand. I got a chance 2 seasons ago to spend a night in a Spike powered by a Focus after my old oil-cooled GSXR 1100 commited suicide on the front stretch the week before and honestely, I couldn't really tell the difference, other than it had power steering, which I now covet. Could I tell the difference if it was one of Keith Kunz' TRD's? I imagine I could but that's not what we do at this level. I'd sure like to give it a try though...

I've trashed the idea of a trans due to its cost. I do like the "Spec Sprints" way of using a 2 barrel carb and a starter, very economical, inexpensive and user friendly. Back to MC engines and racecars, my background is in shocks, I worked for 6 years for one of the major brands before they sold out, we use to handle all the shocks for 600 Racing Legend cars. The legends run an MC engine, how are they different from what your running? I know they don't use a chain...

[Jim Gardner]

Legends cars have to run some 1970s technology air cooled Yamaha that you have to buy through 600 racing at about 3x market value. Turned sideways with a clutch and driveshaft. It works for them. The lightning sprints use modern import 1000cc bike engines run in the same orientation as the bike, with a chain running along the left frame rail direct to a sprocket on the rear end. There is significantly less mechanical power lost through the drivetrain compared to a legend, dwarf car, mod lite or anything else running a bike motor with a driveshaft.

Apparently the Ambrose family out of Owensboro Kentucky were the first to figure out the chain drive idea while running tqs and whipped everyone's rear until rules were changed.

[jjones752]

Aces, Kenyon Midgets (just to add to your confusion) run basically the same setup as a Legends car, a 1200 air-cooled Yamaha with a u-joint flange welded to the countershaft sprocket, albeit in a Midget chassis and running to a quick-change rearend. I can vouch for the power loss of the "conventional" setup vs. chain as, even with my ancient old GSXR 1100 I could easily out-drag a Kenyon out of 2 & 4 at Montpelier.
Discarding your transmission concept aside, I hope you now understand a little bit more how closely the D2 concept relates to what you're trying to get going, and how the goal is to offer a platform that relates to the "National" Midgets in exactly the same way your idea relates to a USAC 410; economical, and comparatively inexpensive and user friendly, only with some of the diversity that we Midgeteers seem to inexplicably crave...

[TQ29m]

Originally Posted by Jim Gardner Legends cars have to run some 1970s technology air cooled Yamaha that you have to buy through 600 racing at about 3x market value. Turned sideways with a clutch and driveshaft. It works for them. The lightning sprints use modern import 1000cc bike engines run in the same orientation as the bike, with a chain running along the left frame rail direct to a sprocket on the rear end. There is significantly less mechanical power lost through the drivetrain compared to a legend, dwarf car, mod lite or anything else running a bike motor with a driveshaft. Apparently the Ambrose family out of Owensboro Kentucky were the first to figure out the chain drive idea while running tqs and whipped everyone's rear until rules were changed.

Coulda been the car builder, Scott Klein, the 2 stroke Konig engine, or the fact that Ronnie was just very good at reading a track, and Scott a good setup man, I owned one of these cars, and they were very free cars, no bind up in the corners, funny part was, they kept cutting the displacement to try and slow Ronnie down, and that didn't work, so they outlawed the 2 strokes, he went to a Honda, and still wupped up on them. Bob

[DAD]

https://www.indianaopenwheel.com/alb...pictureid=3086 Now here is an inexpensive motor for D2 Midget racing