Yes they do, thank you.

I know your right, the CT525 is more powerful on the dyno than the RS305, but from an observation POV the 305 cars seem to accelerate better and cost about a 1/3 to 1/2 as much as the Sprint CT525 from Pace. Requiring 4 wheelers sounds much more expensive than a starter/battery. The 604 is a possibility, $7200 sprint ready from Pace I think, but the CT525 even though I think its great, is more than I could sell to these people I'm sure. I get it I'm tampering with tradition, but I don't see any other way. All you guys are from sprint occupied territory, I live in a foreign country with no infrastructure and speaking a different language. I think the RS305 is gonna hold the most promise and allow for the most opportunity. The Elite Non-wing RS305 guys are 3-4 states away in TX and the Winged Racesaver guys are in the Carolinas(mainly NC), but we'll just have to see. Anybody ever tried putting injection on a GM602?


From Pace Performance:
CT525 $15950 race ready w/controller
GM602 $7850 race ready w/o headers.
GM604 $7200 race ready w/o carb or headers.

It can be done. The UMSS Traditional Sprint Series started with an exhibition year in 2011 with 4 of us building cars. I had never even sat in a sprint car prior to buying one and took me forever to figure out where the springs and panhard bar was on that thing . 2012 I think we had 7 cars. The history is explained on the website at www.umsprints.com. In 2016 we had full fields almost every race and the racing got much more competitive every year. I'm guessing the last time non wing sprint cars ran in this area regularly was 40+ years ago. It has caught on exponentially with increasing car counts and interest. This is also big modified territory in what used to be a dominant late model area. We still hear the complaints of no starters but week after week this class puts on the best racing of all the classes. Don't thing limited non wing sprints can't put on good races go check out some of the videos on the website.

I didn't say turn them into Emods, I said an Emod (or something comparable) would've faster...
And true they weren't always 410's but they were always the fastest at the track...
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your enthusiasm with racing no matter what the class, I was just never one to sugar coat things

the problem with the self starting cars is the expense and the weight. When I first got into sprints there was talk of putting starters in them, if they had passed that rule I would probably have sold out and gone 600 racing.

My big concern with starters is not the weight, as much as it is with the damage it can cause, in order to make it work, you have to be able to retard the ignition, that you need to have to get the performance out of the engine, otherwise you sit there with the starter on the track, and maybe a very expensive part of the engine attached to it, you take a high compression racing engine with quite a bit of advance cranked in to begin with, then add the cylinders having an above average amount of fuel in them, it's a disaster waiting to happen. Jmho! Bob

I live in fender country until the last couple of years when sprints started making a comeback. Sprint teams have a means to start the cars so that really isn't an issue before the race or during reds. On spins the local wreckers and track vehicles will be able to handle it if you just give them a little heads up on push starting. I am sure any of the group that pushes in Indiana will be willing to help you out there.

So how much are you planning to spend on this experiment? That is building 2 cars, getting them to the track etc......

I appreciate all your input and I apologize if our wires got crossed. Actually from a power to weight ratio of an RS305 sprint vs our Limited Lates, they may still be the fastest thing on the track, down here. I have no idea what an E-mod is, LOL.

Your story is encouraging and worth considering and like I said I'm gathering info, looking at what works and what doesn't. They introduced the CT525 in late models down here about 5 or 6 years ago, gave it a weight break and a taller spoiler and in the right conditions(Dry Slick) with an above average driver(Ronnie Johnson) it was wining some(something like 5 or 6) races against the open comp supers. Several series adopted rules to allow it and the future looked bright and the prospect of reviving weekly Super Late model seemed possible... Within 1 year the Open Comp drivers had lobbied hard enough that ALL the series rolled back the rules and put the CT525 on even par with open comp engines, same weight, same spoiler, just has a 350HP deficit to Open Comp.

Next it looked like maybe Limited Late would be the home for the CT525, but no, fears of traction control hidden in the controller and absurd rumors of whiz kids with lap tops hacking the box and telling the engine exactly how much power to make resulted in further rules removing the coil packs/controller and adding #100 of weight to the front of the car as well as a 100HP deficit in power to the steel head cars... So now if you want to race a CT525 and not get run out of town on a rail you have to travel with either Nesmith or FAST series.

The CT525 is a great engine and I myself don't have irrational fears of traction control and Millennial's using apps on smart phones to adjust the HP to whatever number they want, but some less sophisticated folks do, sadly. The reason we have a 602 Sportsman Late model class is because so many racers became convinced that "Blue Printing" a 604 gave it 85-100HP more than the out of the box ones, even with a prominent engine builder dynoing every single one to show them. Didn't matter, they wanted blue printing(rebuilding to spec) outlawed, but when they couldn't get that, they split and started a 602 only class with no rebuilding allowed, ever. I'm so frustrated I have trouble mustering the enthusiasm to even go most weeks... Then I discovered Non-Wing sprints on the Dirty 30 show and I was reinvigorated. I don't know what the end solution will be.

Check out these videos, they all have starters, transmissions and batteries.
North East Wingless Sprints
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b4XwWedJXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyu18WQruP4

Is an RS305 that high on compression? When I first got started working on DLM's back in 86' we used mags, w/starters without issue...
Check out these videos, they all have starters, transmissions and batteries.
North East Wingless Sprints
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b4XwWedJXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyu18WQruP4

I'm in Georgia, No Sprints. I'm planning to be patient zero.

Why? A budget as of yet has not been established, that's why I'm asking so many questions. Are you of the opinion I shouldn't bother?

Why? A budget as of yet has not been established, that's why I'm asking so many questions. Are you of the opinion I shouldn't bother?

No, not at all. I'd say go for it if that's what you want. But I will add that I owned, drove and paid about 98% of the bills on my own car for 20 years. I was able to win some races & track championships on a budget that most would consider not enough to race hobby stocks. So I am acutely aware of the expense involved. It's just hard for me to fathom putting 2 cars together and let people play in them in hopes it will spur some interest, all while knowing that if I did get a track interested the purse is more than likely going to be minimal.