[openwheelfan1]

In the late 60's and certainly through the 70's when I would attend Tri-State (Haubstadt) I seem to recall they always ran Sprint Cars and Late Models. I personally think it would be pretty neat to see them run on the same program. My concern is it might be pretty tough to attractant a good field of LM's w/o promising a substantial purse. Unlike Sprint Cars, I don't think there is a large pool of LM's to draw from in Indiana. Living down here in LM country now, and observing the LM teams down here, it seems LM teams won't make a long haul unless there is at least a 3K winners purse posted.

[slick01]

We would gladly trade places with anyone who wants to watch late models.

[The Fanthom]

You guys realize that Haubstadt just had this very show and got 12 late models. LM are gone, killed by costs and the introduction of modifieds to split the fields. Tommy ran Wing sprints and Late Models both up through the mid nineties until both fields fell below 15 cars in each and then LM were dropped and soon sprints switched to NW. Those years around 1992 or so were some of the best racing I ever saw, but I'm afraid it won't be back. Hope I'm wrong.

[dirt in ur beer]

Agreed!!! I'm 5 hrs from nonwing sprintcar land !

[kdobson]

I know we have taken up more than our share of space here this week talking about our races at Lincoln and Jacksonville this weekend... but half the reason is because the kind of shows you are asking for... and we are having this weekend... are high risk shows. They can and do make it, but its not hard for circumstances to make them really, really upside down.

When is the last time you saw 410 Winged Sprints, National Midgets and Late Models on the same card? That's this Friday at Lincoln Speedway. Saturday is both the MOWA Championship and POWRi Championship on the same card. We have had at least 3 of those scheduled this year and lost 2 of them to rain (opening night at Lincoln, and the Herb Barlow Memorial).

But one of the biggest problems is figuring out under what conditions fans will actually show up. I will drive my kid to Champaign to freeze all day bundled up in November to an Illinois football game and watch a pathetic display of football... but if it's 60 degrees in October with a slight wind, people want to stay home from car races. If there's a 30% or greater chance of rain you can count on losing about the same percentage of your crowd. When it's not too cold, then it's too hot if the needle gets above 90. We can't predict the weather when we schedule shows so it's way easier to be conservative - not knowing the factors you will be fighting when the show gets here.

Then if you get stuck with weather where you can see in advance is going to keep people away, you can't cancel without alienating much of your fan base. One of the smartest cancellations of the year was the Gold Crown last week. There was no way enough people were going to show up in that weather to give Kevin and Tammy a fighting chance to do anything but lose a ton of money. But if you read their Facebook page that day you would have swore that they somehow owed it to us to take a huge bath for the good of the sport. How is that good for the sport? Don't begrudge a track that cancels a race simply to live to fight another day.

Then we have the whole issue of people not showing up due to too many classes. The Lincoln show is 4 total classes - 3 of which are the premier classes you are asking for but I've already heard people say that they aren't willing to sit through the stock cars. You have to understand that what keeps the track open week to week for you to come enjoy the big specials are the weekly racers and fans. We need those people in the house at the specials too. They don't necessarily care about the big name driver at the big show... but they will show up to watch their brother or buddy race his stock car every week.... and they have to pay more to do it when the special rolls around. It takes people to have these shows. There's no sense in planning a show where you leave 500 fans home who are willing to come. It makes that hill even harder to climb. It's not back-gate promoting. There isn't a single class in today's world that pays for itself in the back. It's the fans they bring that ads to the overall fan count needed to clear the hurdle. There's a middle ground that most every promoter tries to find... put on an efficient and good show - but put enough butts in the seats to make it work.

It drives me nuts when people complain about Bob Sargent racing a number of local classes on the same night as a POWRi show at Macon. If anybody through the years has figured out the economics of making a race track stay alive - it's him. He races those other classes because they put people in the stands. A race track needs that. Maybe it takes those other classes for you to have the chance to enjoy the midgets several times a year. Look around. Not everyone is wearing a Chili Bowl T-shirt.

Trust that your race track promoter in today's economy is planning shows that give the event its best chance of success. Don't begrudge a track that filled the house one night and made a hefty deposit because I guarantee you that there were nights where one of the factors I mention above required him to go make a sizable withdrawal.

Don't take this as being snippy. I have kind of digressed from the topic at hand. But next time the weather is a little on the questionable side, or a track might have added a class that doesn't interest you... show up. Support your track. Call the promoter and talk to him about your concerns about a show being too long or having too many classes. You will probably find that there was a well thought-out reason behind it... or he might just agree with you and change things next time.

And when a track has made an effort to plan a show that appeals to you... Go if you can. Staying home over some minor inconveniences accomplishes nothing. We're in this together.

If the shows you are asking for... two or three big classes on the same card worked repeatedly then I can assure you that tracks would schedule them. They will happen more often if you support them regardless of many of the above factors being present.

Our shows were planned knowing October weather is less than ideal, that it's harvest season and that there would be a good chance of the Cardinals in the playoffs this weekend. What we have racing is what will give them their best chance of success. We hope you join us... or support another race track this weekend that is fighting less than perfect circumstances. Thanks for the opportunity for the little rant!

[kdobson]

Pulled this quote from a good and committed late model fan on another forum commenting about our Lincoln show:

Lincoln is a good track. Black/Black dirt. When prepped right, and usually is, hammer down fast. Check out the vids from the Summernats this year. Feger and Pierce were both on their roofs that night. Cool temps will mean fast track. Sprints are OK. Powri Midgets don't do much for me. That's when I stretch the legs.

Great example of a great fan 'dealing with it' to support a show that might be less than 'perfect' for him. Not only do we need him in the house... YOU need him in the house.

[fish]

Attica Raceway Park races 410 sprints, late models and 305 sprints weekly. All three divisions put on a great show. I'm a die-hard sprint car fan, but don't head for the exit when the late models run when I'm there.

[dirt in ur beer]

Well what do ya know !!!! Here is the reason for my sarcastic (some didn't get) post on another thread. These guys put an unbelievable amount of thought into their decisions of what classes and shows to run. Running a race track is legalized gambling , a lot like farming. When they do well at it everyone thinks "that lucky moneybags bleepity bleep". But when they go bankrupt people remark is " oh look dumbass lost the track/farm."

There r a couple grammatical errors in this post. I left them there for the people that it bothers.

[lazyifoto]

Originally Posted by speedy20 FINALLY it has come out!!! That would the greatest decision ever.... sprints and late models on the same card especially at the Burg! I grew up there, worked there and raced there and in the past that place was packed every Saturday nite when they were on the card. You hear year after year that it will happen and year after year.... NOTHING!! This needs to happen. I don't care if it happens 2 times a year... it needs to be done. I live 10 minutes from the place and can't even use it except for practice or the Merrill Downey race. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm bitter.. I am, especially when it comes to this subject. JMO

Atomic races Sprints and LM I believe all the time and from what I understand they have good racing and good crowds and car counts most every weekend. The Burg also did not have a concrete Monster wrapped around it back in the day either. You could run a car a hundred foot off the track and not touch anything......My how times have changed.

[Chris Nunn]

In Haubstadts defense...they had a lot of shows running against their LM show.

We at Brownstown had 36 Late Models for a regular show just a few weeks ago.