I've posted this topic several times before and I'm not going to give up the campaign to get a solution to the points ties. For those new to this topic, this has to do with drivers/teams drawing for heat race positions ( no time trials ). Drivers are then place in the heat races according to the numbers that were drawn. Drivers are then rewarded points for finishing position plus passing points. Here is the problem: When the point totals are assembled, there may be several drivers that have accumulated the same number of points. The crucial issue here is that the points totals are used to determine feature and semi feature starting positions. The current method being used penalizes the drivers in heats 2, 3 and/or 4 (assuming there are four heats on the program) in that the drivers in the higher numbered heats are awarded preference in terms of starting positions in the feature races. Here are two examples of how unfair this method is:

USAC Midget Week 2007: The Kokomo midget race had a number of drivers tied with the same number of points. The drivers in the first few heat races were placed in the feature while the drivers who were last to race in the heats had to go to the semi:crying:.

This weekend at Macon, three drivers tied for points that would have allowed any of the three to start on the pole of the feature. The driver who was in the earliest heat race was awarded the pole position, while the other two drivers who participated in later heat races had to start in the 7th and 8th positions:crying:.

My solution to this is a simple one. When there is a points tie(s), the race officials redraw numbers for the tieing drivers. No need to have the parties present for the draw. Tell the participants in the drivers meeting that this is the way the ties will be handled so everyone knows in advance what the procedure will be to determine the feature lineups. This at the very least takes away some the handicap for the penalized drivers.

Just because the traditional method that I have outlined above has been used over the years does not make it right. Come on race organizers and promoters... let's stop penalizing drivers because of which heat they participate.

Don Moore

Don , your solution is simple and would eliminate the "bad luck of the draw" for those in the latter heats ... but while you campaign for this change , I don't think the Indiana Open Wheel message board will bring about the change.

Take it to those of authority to make the change - and "best of luck" with that ! :angry-smiley-007:

Already have done that. We need some people with ****s to step out of the box and get the problem corrected. The people in charge of these events read this message board.

Don Moore

Isn't that just another draw? They basically already break them based on what they drew originally. What's the difference?

Spot on, drawing over would just be another luck situation, the 1st draw was a luck situation. DM-10's idea sound like someone that has spent alot of time in a Bingo Hall where they have a redraw for losing tickets!

Maybe break tie with :
1 Highest finish
2 Improved position
3 Time of heat race
4 After night one, highest in midget week points

Spridge: My point is this: When I show up at the track, I want to have an equal chance to make a good feature position as the next guy. When you draw for position, the number each person draws puts them in a certain track. Everyone starting a heat race should have an equal opportunity to potentially make the feature with no strings attached. Acquiring the same number of points as 2, 3, or more other teams should be equal at that point. A handicap of being in the lower heat race numbers before the racing even starts is not acceptable, period. But that is the system being used. What it comes down to is that a team has a 75% chance of being screwed regarding a choice position in the feature assuming the team has enough points. And even that is a problem if there are several that have the same point total like the Kokomo race. In that case, you may end up in the semi feature.

The bottomline is: Once the heat races are completed and the points are totalled, every team should have an equal opportunity to make any feature position, regardless of the heat they were in. So what is the solution?

Difference is just Don...:headbang I dont get the difference between the origional draw and draw off also?

Correct........ They are just reverting to the original draw, in which the lower number put that driver in the first heat.

Now, if you REALLY wanted to make it interesting, how about having the tied drivers out on the front stretch for a Rock/Paper/Scissors contest to break ties? Maybe even pick a couple of kids from the stands to represent the drivers in the game?

At most tracks the cars use transponders. Break ties by starting the driver that turned the fastest lap in his heat 1st, then 2nd fastest and so on. Everyone would have an equal chance that way regardless of the heat they were in.

Points and draws??? Points are for the "other" sports and drawing is for cards in Las Vegas. Qualifying and starting the feature according to your time you get back from a top 4 heat race finish is what racing is!
Why is everybody trying to take the racing out of RACING???:headbang