[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by C&R Racing I agree with Ryan, do not make us run what we do not want to run. However on the seats, what kind of seats are going to be allowed?

How about ROLL CAGE? when they where mandated MANY opposed them.....Firesuits...OPPOSED due to the tightness and restriction. Arm restraints...opposed......I understand NO ONE LIKES TO BE TOLD "YOU" have to change....hell look at Stewart he so opposed Hans devises ...as far as seat please refer to beginning of this

QUOTE: "New seats are available from Butler Built, Kirkey, Ultra Shield and LaJoire from the price range of 450.00 to 1400.00. There are however MANY USED seats also out there from 300.00 to 600.00" which means any seat that YOU are comfortable as long as it is a FULL CONTAINMENT seat

[TQ29m]

Originally Posted by JstAbvVMC I'm not going to address the safety issue. I think it's a no brainer, but I will address what might be an overlooked issue your group may want to consider.... As the former Technical Inspector for a racing association ( I will not name them because I don't speak for them) there was some serious discussion about "Mandating" certian safety items beyond what was refered to as "Standard Practice" safety equipment. IE...Snell approved Hemlet, Firesuit, Full 5 point belts ETC... Items like a Hans device and full containment seats were ONLY listed as "Strongly Encouraged" safety items. The thought was that if they mandated non standard items it could potentionally leave the organization open to legal issues if those items were to fail and cause injury or death. Again, just a thought, after all we are a lawsuit happy nation.....

I agree with this post because of the litigation posibilities, when you "force" someone to use something they are opposed to, and that really hasn't been proven to be "safer" than what is currently being used, you open up the door for a lot of trouble, same goes for "testing" someone for drugs, of which we could justify in court, but somewhere along the line, it went soft, so now if you even hint at a drug test, at a race track, even tho it is in the interests of safety, of the person, and the people around, you better just bend over, and kiss your "cheeks" goodby, a local track, on a local budget, can't afford the headaches, and another promoter and race track will be a shopping center. Too much of this stuff comes from what Nascar does, and if real racing paid as well as it does, who would not go along with whatever is mandated, or the penalties they impose. Too many do-gooders have about ruined racing as far as I'm concerned, the "peeps" that don't own a car or drive one, just "pine knots" with big mouths and even bigger ideas about things they never experience. Bob!

[traviskart]

I think full containment should be mandatory for all series. I am sure most of you don't know that the State of New Jersey controls all safety rules on race cars in the state of NJ and I am sure that they will be mandatory very soon in NJ. Cars that race from other series that don't normally compete in NJ like World Of Outlaws have to meet NJ rules when they compete there. If the state requires safety item you can't sue them. And who is going to argue with a State Trooper carrying his 9mm when he tells you, you are not legal.
I know of sprint car series in FL. that does not even require neck restraints yet.

[chop]

What I would like to know is was the car that Jason was killed in checked by the NJ state police? Did they do a pre race check of the car? I'm not looking to be a jerk or start something. I have heard that he removed part of the seat, but had a cage net. Was the car legal-meet what rules are in NJ? Was it really the seat that caused the problem or was it just a bad hit-wrong place type of deal? It started with a torsion bar arm that came off-broke.

God knows if the government says its right it has to be!!! That's all racing needs is for the government local or federal to be mandating rules! Good or bad!! As for the rule.... Leave to the racer but since I don't have a Dog in this fight I really don't have a voice...

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[traviskart]

Originally Posted by chop What I would like to know is was the car that Jason was killed in checked by the NJ state police? Did they do a pre race check of the car? I'm not looking to be a jerk or start something. I have heard that he removed part of the seat, but had a cage net. Was the car legal-meet what rules are in NJ? Was it really the seat that caused the problem or was it just a bad hit-wrong place type of deal? It started with a torsion bar arm that came off-broke.

I was not there when this happened but state police are always at a race track in NJ and they are in charge over safety even if a track has there own inspectors SP can over rule. I used to live and race in NJ for many years and even help with rules. To me I wish all tracks & states were has good has NJ is with rules.

[c47]

IMO....in regards to the leffler deal....the stop fell off....not the first time its happened and IF his car was "checked" by the state police, they wouldnt have found anything wrong...i wouldnt be surprised if they dont make full containment seats mandatory because of jasons hard hit to the left side and the cause of death....but just wait till someone gets hurt or worse using a state mandated piece of safety gear....the lawyers will be at the track before the show is even over! and that sums up my opinion about making the seats mandatory anywhere. we have them in all 3 cars and wouldnt run without them (yeah, they have been crash tested) but i also know of one death in central pa. sprint racing that could have been prevented if he WASNT using a full containment seat......gotta weigh the chances for a "freak" accident happening against the positives of using the seat and be able to make your own choices cause no matter how safe you make the cars, people are gonna get hurt.....

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by chop What I would like to know is was the car that Jason was killed in checked by the NJ state police? Did they do a pre race check of the car? I'm not looking to be a jerk or start something. I have heard that he removed part of the seat, but had a cage net. Was the car legal-meet what rules are in NJ? Was it really the seat that caused the problem or was it just a bad hit-wrong place type of deal? It started with a torsion bar arm that came off-broke.

Here is what I know from my research:

Jason did not have "HIS" custom built seat in the car he was driving as it was a back-up...
Yes he removed the "LEFT" side headrest that had been bolted and installed a window net.. (to be more comfortable)....
there was no left or right side shoulder support....
Jason died from left side "Blunt Force Trauma" to the neck upon striking the outside barrier (wall) with the left side of the car...............

NJ STATE REPORThttp://www.njsp.org/news/pr062113a.html....


whether or not this becomes a necessary MANDATE for my series or not (due to Liability issues) I will STRONGLY urge any racer to have a FULL CONTAINMENT seat. I would go as far as to you get "BONUS" monies for having one along with a head and neck restraint. If we as promoters or track owners DO NOT INSIST racers will never change...some will not do it just to be a horses a$$.....Just like helmets 5 years after manufacture date, not shelve date....

Accidents happen...some can be prevented some can not....Don't bring grief to your many fans and family just because you don't like a safety issue and will not comply...

[snoopy]

I'll never get in by the sidebars and shoulder wraps. Especially with a wing.

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[fasster23]

As mentioned earlier, open faced helmets were eventually banned and everyone was forced to buy a full faced helmet if you wanted to race. Same with roll cages, firesuits, gloves, and so on. Not open for discussion. Do it or don't show up. Surely we're not so short sighted that we can't learn from the past. Would anyone like to go run a cageless sprinter with goggles and wing tips shoes. Hell no you say? Well at one time there were a whole bunch of guys who did it every weekend and when the day came they were told they had to build a cage and buy a new helmet you think they were pissed? Hell ya they were, but looking back now doesn't seem really dang obvious it was the right decision? This is the same thing. I have a Butler Sprint Advantage seat in my car custom built to fit me and I can't ever see myself strapping in without one. A driver died from internal injuries where we race last year. It was pretty well determined it was due to a cheap Kirkey seat and belts that weren't tight enough. Do we need to continue down this path before the next major step in safety is implemented? We just need to make the obvious choice now so that when my grand kids talk to me about race cars in 30 years they can say "Who the hell would drive one of them things without a containment seat? That's crazy?!"

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