I have done some research on this topic in the past few weeks and I just find it disturbing. I am not starting this to start any problems I am bringing it up because I feel there are a lot of unanswered questions here.

I have been looking into things that I can use for my own safety in my racing as well as everyones!

I have checked the reports and I have seen one photo from the cockpit after the crash. It just doesn't all add up.

I think the whole cover up is much like the JKF probe.
I do think it is important, however,to know the details in which I respect the families in this case but by not releasing the correct answers may give us false thoughts on our safety as we get farther along in the techonology of safety equipment.

Once again, not trying to start an argument just seeking some "inside info".

Thanks!
Tyler Shoemaker
www.nbcf.com
www.tylershoemakerracing.com

[purvis]

If you would like a lot of information on the subject, I suggest you try to talk with Bill Simpson. He has spent a great deal of time, energy, and money on researching this and can tell you all that you would ever want to know about it. I was at a small gathering where he spoke about this matter and remember it to be a very eye opening experience. I do not remember all of the specific points he made and because I am sure that what I do remember has since been clouded in my mind by other rumors and some of my own stupidity I will not comment on any details.

[ossuks]

Try this route--This is one of those "I was told by a guy that knows "stories. But, this would awnser alot of questions.

1- After pre-season testing at Daytona the car went back to the chassis dyno, a rare procedure, normally they go to the dyno and then to the track. With this being the case the seat and belts were already installed, somehting that is normally done after the dyno.

2- On the speedway cars the exhaust is actually ran through the frame rail for aero .

3- What does a driver do with his lap belts when he exits a car? Lays them over to the side on top of the frame rails. Was the padding installed just to go test?

4- What would happen to a lap belt if it layed on a hot frame rail for a period of time?

[LEADERS EDGE]

I personally don't believe there was as much of a cover up as there was a rush to lay blame. In my opinion, that was the first time that I had ever seen NASCAR make a rash and uncalculated move that put them in a bad position.

Like Bill Simpson or not, he didn't deserve that. What NASCAR never counted on was that at the core of Bill Simpson he is a tenacious fighter who will not stop. He is as headstrong as they are and he will not stop until he feels he is vindicated.

NASCAR always took the stance that the less rules they had in place for safety, the less they felt they would be responsable in case of death or severe injury.

Many drivers had no gloves,open face helmet, single layer suit w/no underwear. Sr. used a modified seat out of I believe a van and they didn't mount the belts in a way that was approved by the manufacturer. The heat from the floor eventually made them brittle.

The saddest part of the whole thing is that they waited until the death of one of their twin headed cash cows to really start concentrating on safety. There was what:3-5 deaths before that and they made very little effort to see what was going on.

The structure of the cars had changed and the drivers were absorbing more of the forces the cars produced during a crash.

Of course now they claim every safety innovation that comes down the road and the truth is that IMS is either responsible or was the proving grounds for nearly all of the safety innovations that have been developed in American Motorsport.

[Charles Nungester]

Originally Posted by Tyler Shoemaker I have done some research on this topic in the past few weeks and I just find it disturbing. I am not starting this to start any problems I am bringing it up because I feel there are a lot of unanswered questions here. I have been looking into things that I can use for my own safety in my racing as well as everyones! I have checked the reports and I have seen one photo from the cockpit after the crash. It just doesn't all add up. I think the whole cover up is much like the JKF probe. I do think it is important, however,to know the details in which I respect the families in this case but by not releasing the correct answers may give us false thoughts on our safety as we get farther along in the techonology of safety equipment. Once again, not trying to start an argument just seeking some "inside info". Thanks! Tyler Shoemaker www.nbcf.com www.tylershoemakerracing.com

Tyler, I've seen and probably have somewhere (I'll never find em) PDF's of Both Nascar and Independent investigations. there were at least three different non collaberated investigations.

All comming to the conclusion that his spinal cord detached from the brain. All are unclear weather it happened on the actual impact (Forward motion) or the recoil (Backward slam)

It's only my opinion but it was mentioned that the helmet moved forward on his head at impact and that the base of his head hit the seat on the whiplash.

Which only reinforces my belief (NOT FACT) that if he had been wearing a FULL FACE helmet this might not have happened (He was grandfathered in to not having to not wear one) The investigations all mention he had contusions on the chin (Actually made contact with the wheel) but that was not the cause of death as it was superficial.

I see no conspiracy.

I am a full believer in a FULL CONTAINMENT SEAT, THE HANS or simular device and believe it or not, (A REAR VIEW or side view mirror)

Keep the head from moving more than a couple inches in any direction and this kinda accident can be avoided. Not just sr.s there are a ton of racers out there that cannot or were told not to race anymore due to deterioration of neck vertebra clearly caused by either one big or several tumbles and impacts where the head is tossed around.

Im no expert on safety. I'll addmit to that but studying it and observations over 30 years kinda come to that conclusions. Along with Gary Trammel's own statement that The Hans probably saved BC's life.

Your racers, you do what you want and im telling no one what to do. Just saying if a couple hundred bucks makes you more likely to be here tomorrow. ID DO IT IN A HEARTBEAT!

Chuck

[streihawk8]

I agree with Leaders Edge on NASCARS lack of safety initiatives. I was appalled to hear Rsty Wallace say in an interview after Kenny's death that maybe NASCAR should mandate toe straps on the throttle pedal. WHAT? We have had to run them for 50+ years. I wouldn't start any race car that didn't have one.
Mike Streicher

[Larryoracing]

Tyler, interesting post.

Although, you are not specific about your question(s) on the
investigation of the lap belts on Dale Earnhardt's death, one point has been brought up?

"Not just sr.s there are a ton of racers out there that cannot or were told not to race anymore due to deterioration of neck vertebra clearly caused by either one big or several tumbles and impacts where the head is tossed around"

(1) I personally feel Sr was driving hurt...ie.. meaning he had injuries
where he knew one more "hit, like that and he would die"!

(2) I personally have sustained injuries during jumping on skates
where I have torn up my knees. I knew to continue to skate
on it, would be taking great chances where if I fell on it again
I would never be able to walk normally.

a) You take the risk because you want to skate and in
Earnhardt's death he wanted to race and knew the risks.

They were devastating and it took his life.

(3) Also Earnhardt died doin' something he never did. "Blocking"
other competitors so his son and teammate, Michael
Waltrip could win.

(4) Other factor were the seat belts and placement there of.


(5) Bottom line Nascar needed and Escape goat, maybe even
to cover up thier negligence and lawsuits for letting Earnhardt
race and the rules regarding safety of thier drivers.

(6) They blamed Simpson to protect their own soles.

a) Can you blame them? I will let you decide.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani:action-smiley-049:

All very good points. I too wasn't a believer in the seatbelt deal with Bill. I saw the video from turn four showing one of the EMT's going in to cut it.
It was just crazy to me how many times NASCAR changed their story.. That's really all I was looking at when I eluded it to being a cover up. Not letting any of the cops take photos or be any part of the investigation which isn't a law at the race track but…..

Going back to the final autopsy from the Sententiel the doctor stated that the seatbelt didn't cause the basilar skull fracture. It was the snapping of the neck. I read that the doctor also determined that it was the initial snap that caused it and not when his head came back to the seat. He stated that the spirals would have shown a downwards direction if it was from coming back. This part was never completely determined because the helmet was never revealed where the scratches were (meaning whether the helmet moved when he hit the steering wheel).

Many of the average fans would logically think that because he hit the steering wheel that the belt broke, but the steering wheel is very close. The rare picture I saw was where part of the steering wheel was broke. I have bent steering wheels (Aluminum) before but this showed the spoke part in the upper right hand corner completely broken with blood on the steering wheel. If you look at the video the front wheels never turned again so that was the direction of the wheel on impact.

The actual time the spine snapped could have been when the neck came forward at how many ever g's as a reaction to hitting the wall and when his head hit the wheel. I know non-synthetic belts stretch a little more than the new synthetic belts stretch. Which part of his head hit the wheel? Was it his Chin or the top of his forehead? When your head comes forward without a Hans on it would force the chin down so it would have to be the top of his head or forehead area I think.

I would love to hear Bill's work on this. I know we have come a long way. I myself run a full containment seat in my sprint car and wear a Hans. I think these are great things. I wonder what will we have new safety-wise in a few years.

Thanks again for the responses!!:thumb

Tyler Shoemaker
www.nbcf.com
www.tylershoemakerracing.com

[Knoke77]

Here is the actual investigation report of Dale's death from Nascar. Lots of information but does contain some pictures of the car that are graphic so look at your own risk.

http://www.nascar.com/SPECIAL/er/html_version/