[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86 . Your still gonna have 20k dollar cars show up. They are still gonna have big motors that are stock bore and stroke that have big valves, lighter rotating assembly and 3 gear transmissions and they are still gonna have thousands in there efi fuel injections. It will be interesting. Posted via Mobile Device

I agree Scott on that but, if the organizations or series DO NOT do their job and TECH these motors and make a HARSH enough penalty like done for 2-3 races and convinscate the illegle parts along with promoters WORKING together to form a UNIVERSAL set of rules so a racer can go ANY WHERE HE CHOSES to races. Bill May and I are trying to do just that. Work together. When you do that the sky is the limit. case in point that is how this country was created PEOPLE WORKING TOGETHER not aganist each other. So now the Division II midgets are born!!! Non wing and oh god do I have to say it.....WWWWing ...ok I said it it ...SASTIFIED!!!!!!!!!!...LOL

[Bradleyracing86]

Ditching the wings is the best thing we could do.

Posted via Mobile Device

Will division 2 ban Engler or any injection.

Andy

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86 Ditching the wings is the best thing we could do. Posted via Mobile Device Will division 2 ban Engler or any injection. Andy

CLARIFICATION ON INJECTION RULE PLEASE!!!!

We have several groups that have seen fit to ban the Engler injection systems. My question is that a ban on Engler Injection systems because Tim Engler is a slimmey snake in the grass? Is That a ban on all mechanical type injection systems visa vice Hilborne, Kinsler, etc. ? If it is the later that is fine if it is the former I would expect a restraint of trade argument some day.

Honest Dad himself

[Wayne Davis]

Originally Posted by Bradleyracing86 Ditching the wings is the best thing we could do. Posted via Mobile Device Will division 2 ban Engler or any injection. Andy

Our BIGGEST concern is as Dad says it is cheaper to buy a used engine then rebuild....Corralla Rods are $1600 a set + pistons and risk pins along with rings it is over 2 grand then all the "SPECIAL" work while you are in there can lead up to MAJOR bucks...Cycle Image of Jacksonville just built a Track Bike GSXR 1000 with "ALL" the goodies internally and it was $8500.00 THAT IS OUR BIGGEST CONCERN!!!

We need "CHEAP STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BIKE" engines..My engine (stock on gas..87 octane) in the 92 is going on 3 years now and 45 races...the compession has not dropped but 5% and it is BONE STOCK but we do not run BIG 1/2 miles or WINGS...both are motor killers.

So I have no problem with Mechcanial injection at this time...if it is proven an advantage over "STOCK" TB we would add a % of weight...problem solved....STOCK ENGINES at a later date we conould possibly og to STOCK TB...41mm thoat and STOCK height....easily checked go or no go

[Phylo82]

The rule way back on page one says "stock".....I would assume that all aftermarket are illegal even though it specifies Engler.

Posted via Mobile Device

[buckshot3448]

I think the rule is meant for all mechanical injection. Everyone just associates engler though as its the main hitter right now and as far as i know really the only one to make a setup for these. I could be wrong as im sure others have them.

I do believe though that we need to stay away from the big 1/2 and 3/8 mile tracks. sure you can run them once or twice and get away with no motor problem but you cant run weekly or once a month. I agree also with DAD on the fact that once you split these cases your reliabilty is out the window. We just cant seem to build them again like they do at the factory.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by Papa Outlaw Our BIGGEST concern is as Dad says it is cheaper to buy a used engine then rebuild....Corralla Rods are $1600 a set + pistons and risk pins along with rings it is over 2 grand then all the "SPECIAL" work while you are in there can lead up to MAJOR bucks...Cycle Image of Jacksonville just built a Track Bike GSXR 1000 with "ALL" the goodies internally and it was $8500.00 THAT IS OUR BIGGEST CONCERN!!! We need "CHEAP STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BIKE" engines..My engine (stock on gas..87 octane) in the 92 is going on 3 years now and 45 races...the compession has not dropped but 5% and it is BONE STOCK but we do not run BIG 1/2 miles or WINGS...both are motor killers. So I have no problem with Mechcanial injection at this time...if it is proven an advantage over "STOCK" TB we would add a % of weight...problem solved....STOCK ENGINES at a later date we conould possibly og to STOCK TB...41mm thoat and STOCK height....easily checked go or no go

I think that maybe Papa Outlaw has been hanging around them Florida four legged race tracks with them oat burner racers too much "WEIGHT" you got to be kidding me.

Stock is better!!! Stock rods in a motor producing somewhere around stock rated horsepower will last a long time, especially on smaller tracks. Now if you get the compression up around 14.5-16 to 1 you got a different animal. Cylinder pressure increases exponentially and you have invented a bomb. The goal of an engine builder is to increase the cylinder pressure without going over the limit, thus the need for fancy rods and super duty forged pistons.

I have yet to see a stock compression ratio aftermarket piston. That would be a special order item from JE or Wisco. How much do you want to bet our Kansas friends will order a special stock compression ratio piston to replace that old 20,000 mile stock piston in their rebuild.

Horsepower is a factor of VE "Volumetric Efficiency". The more Fuel and "AIR" you can cram in the cylinder and the tighter you can compress it the bigger the bang is going to be and the more horsepower you will make. Our engines were designed to work right at the limits the engineers wanted them to work in. The rods are not too big, excess weight and not to small too light for the designed parameters. The same holds true for pistons and crankshafts. If you exceed the VE designed by the engineers and you get a much larger charge in the cylinder you will experience major problems.

Scott it is unlikely your porting will reach this limit, but if you also throw in bigger valves and a little more radical cam and springs you may very well cross the line, now you will need them super rods and since you went that far you might as well throw in some high compression pistons as well. Now according to MMSA you are a cheater, and we can see all that stuff with a snooper scope.
So don't get carried away.

About the only thing mechanical injection will do is squirt a whole lot of fuel in the cylinder, by doing this you add to the cooling affects of methanol, you also add to the methanol content of your oil pan. It will not increase VE one iota thus no more HORSEPOWER. In fact with electronic injection the atomization affect of the high pressure , We use about 70-75 PSI better breaks down the the fuel for better combustion, and those little "shower" injectors on top actally act as an air conditioner for the intake charge on them hot Indiana summer evenings.

Honest Dad himself

[pjohnson]

I keep reading the words high dollar teams. three owner/drivers on here with the older bigger engines are not high dollar teams with 25,000 dollar cars. I think two of us are new. Yes we have three cars at my shop 1 belongs to my son and 1 is mine the other is owned by me and is for my son-in-law. None of our cars are high dollar and only one has a bigger engine an old 98 GSXR 1074 with kinsler injection. We do have 2 injection systems one kinsler and one hilborn. I have another friend who we just got into this and he is not a high dollar team. I do have another friend who has Engler injection he also is no high dollar team. He has decided to sell his car and thats sad. If a newer 1000 cant run with my old tired 1074 you dont have much of an engine. I just hate to see people keep trying to get stuff banned this is racing Lets race and may the best driver win. Im 50 years old im just out to have fun and try my best to win a race or two again. This is not about money glory or moving on to nascar. This is about members of my family spending time together and meeting new people at the track and something for any of my 5 grandkids that want to to get into. I have met quite a few people over the last couple of years of going to the track that i now call friends. I have also bought quite a few parts as well as my car and my engine right here from members. again not a high dollar team but if you want to buy my car for 25,000 i will even bring it to your shop for free lol. Im not hating on Waynesfield they can do want they want and i respect that but do we need several series that are the same. I would love to see an open winged series and non wing more restricted series ie: 1000 stock and the montpelier/ Div 2 type class. Then people can run all or choose what they want to run. But i hate to see every series just start baning cars and people just saying screw it i will just go fishing. JMO We would love to run at some of the other tracks that the series run at but if not we know places that we are welcome at. Im pretty sure prolly every driver on here could run with the three drivers on here with older engines that you all think are something. Two of us are 50 and over. come on guys most of you are half our age we need somthing lol.

[DAD]

Originally Posted by pjohnson I keep reading the words high dollar teams. three owner/drivers on here with the older bigger engines are not high dollar teams with 25,000 dollar cars. I think two of us are new. Yes we have three cars at my shop 1 belongs to my son and 1 is mine the other is owned by me and is for my son-in-law. None of our cars are high dollar and only one has a bigger engine an old 98 GSXR 1074 with kinsler injection. We do have 2 injection systems one kinsler and one hilborn. I have another friend who we just got into this and he is not a high dollar team. I do have another friend who has Engler injection he also is no high dollar team. He has decided to sell his car and thats sad. If a newer 1000 cant run with my old tired 1074 you dont have much of an engine. I just hate to see people keep trying to get stuff banned this is racing Lets race and may the best driver win. Im 50 years old im just out to have fun and try my best to win a race or two again. This is not about money glory or moving on to nascar. This is about members of my family spending time together and meeting new people at the track and something for any of my 5 grandkids that want to to get into. I have met quite a few people over the last couple of years of going to the track that i now call friends. I have also bought quite a few parts as well as my car and my engine right here from members. again not a high dollar team but if you want to buy my car for 25,000 i will even bring it to your shop for free lol. Im not hating on Waynesfield they can do want they want and i respect that but do we need several series that are the same. I would love to see an open winged series and non wing more restricted series ie: 1000 stock and the montpelier/ Div 2 type class. Then people can run all or choose what they want to run. But i hate to see every series just start baning cars and people just saying screw it i will just go fishing. JMO We would love to run at some of the other tracks that the series run at but if not we know places that we are welcome at. Im pretty sure prolly every driver on here could run with the three drivers on here with older engines that you all think are something. Two of us are 50 and over. come on guys most of you are half our age we need somthing lol.

No problem make age rule 18-32. Them that are too young grow up first. Them that are too old get out of your 4th childhood and move on. after 65 some of us just stay in that last childhood?


Honest Dad himself

[pjohnson]

Lol 4th childhood heck yeah thats how i plan to outlive my grankids lol. Im 50 and for the most part dont feel old in any way. I can make young kids puff in the fire dept and can still stay up with most. See the key is your mind think young lol. I have went through two bad fights with cancer and beat the heck out of it now im goiung through a 12 hour recontruction surgery that will involve a neck trach and feeding tube in March that would make most young guys run. I will be starting my 5th childhood in may i hope. Yes the Doctors think im crazy but they love it. Im not growing older just better and wiser. lol o ya forgot i do it all with just one arm cancer took the other one but i never gave up anything and i never give up. Just got one really strong arm