We have wing and nonwing 410 sprints, wing and nonwing 360 sprints, 305 sprints, steel block 410 (and 360?) sprints, and who knows how many other kinds. Volumes have been spent moaning about all these labels.

I can't see why those who race cars which aren't sprints and aren't midgets would want to copy this model. I don't care if they are wing or nonwing, 600, 1000, 1200 or 17 1/2 cubic inches, they are minisprints. I still don't know what a "lightning sprint" is, and don't care. Be inclusive, not exclusive. Just my take on it, I may be wrong.

This post is part of the problem we have in the lightning sprint division. We don't have a standard set of rules, and we cannot seem to have an agreement about our own names.

The 1000-1200cc lightning sprints are a wonderful, fast affordable dirt racing division- for the $$$ , I think they are the best bang for the buck........but correct me if I am wrong.

If you have a 410 sprint car, you can run it most anywhere right? If you have a midget you can race it almost anywhere right? If you have a 600cc mini sprint, you can race it anywhere right? If you have a 1000 cc lightning sprint, the rules are different enough in several clubs that one guy can run here, but not there. Another guy can run there, but not here. A ZX12 can race one place , but not another. A hopped up GSXR can run one place but not another. One place you can have an Engler/hilborn injected car, but other places you cannot. And so on.....

We enjoy these cars, but why must we try to change the name, when we cannot even get all our rules the same?

Your thoughts?

They are "Cycle Midgets". You don't call a 360 Sprint a Mini Indy Car, you call it a 360 Sprint.

The cars in question are full size Midgets, that happen to use a motorcycle powerplant.

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How about Thousand CC Upright Mini Sprints or {TUMS} for short. I know sometimes after working on mine I need some!!!

By the time you get done fighting with those weather stations, Air density gauges, dry bulb thermometers, and weather forcasts to dial that mechanical injector in for the night you probably should look for something stronger than TUMS.
That is one big reason I went to electronics. They do all that stuff 10 times per second and all I do is keep the fuel level up.

Honest Dad himself

Back when NEMA was running laydown cars (e.g., the original Badger), we tried "Formula M". It didn't work.

Steve

Mini sprints have been around since I think the late 80's, starting out I think in Oklahoma. They trace their roots back to the first indoor races in Tulsa. I go back to the early 90's with the darned things.

I started this post with the intentions of stirring up a little thought on behalf of racers and fans. In 25 years many things have changed and many things have remained the same. The name was chosen I think to emulate the Outlaws they themselves were just starting to get popular.

We had two sizes back then 600cc basic stock motors and 1200cc built to the hilt motors. The 600cc engines began to develop very fast back then in fact a good 600cc car could do quite well against 1200cc cars.

Other classes (sidewinders) took notice of the compact little 600cc motors, and started their version of modified midget or later changing it's name to mini or micro sprint.

The 1200cc motors kept getting more and more expensive to make competitive and that size of bike was loosing favor to a new more compact 1000cc motor (big brother to the 600cc motors. These things were wicked fast and could out run all but the best 1200cc motors out there.

Allen Ruppenthal of ERC race cars saw that these new motors were about to put the old 1200cc out of business and began developing them in race cars. They soon became the predominant motor used in our cars. The 600cc upright mini-sprint kind of withered on the vine and all the 600cc motors went to sidewinders.

Now you will find very few of the old 1200cc motors still racing, as they die they are usually replaced with the newer the better 1000cc motors.

Allen was right about the 1000cc motors. Mini-Sprints were about to vanish into history when the little 1000cc motor brought about an explosion of mini sprint growth. Rapid growth also brought about a lot of new people into the ranks of Mini-Sprint racers and Mini-Sprint racing organizations. With this rapid growth also brought about several for a better term "PROGRESSIVE" people into our ranks. They thought that "MINI" was a degrading term and not a suitable name for a race car.

Some guy up in "Canada" thought "LIGHTNING" was a real neat name He packaged it up with BULL ***** and Kool Aid and sold it to these newer racers. Needless to say it's been down hill since then. Some people want "LIGHTNING" and others wanting "MINI" with a few other choices sprinkled in for good measure.

I have been standing on this "SOAP BOX" for several years now and my old legs are giving out. I can because of my car weight with driver 1025 lbs, 1000cc stock motor, Set up for "Alky" but I still have gasoline set up on the shelf can run about anywhere I wish and do quite well.

The 1000cc vs 1200cc deal actually started out a little political here in Indiana and Ohio. A story all in it's self by the way.

So now we are stuck with several names for our race cars. None of which describe our type of race car very well. Several sets of rules most of these can be raced to by anyone wanting to with just a little work, and a hard economy that is only going to get harder.

When this thing is over, everybody is going to say well I think our Idea is still better and to h3ll with them other people. Ill still be that same old "fart" saying Mini-Sprint and biting my tongue and wishing I had said xxxx-Midget.

Honest Dad himself

Honest DAD,

I have been racing these cars for 9 years now and just love them. I meant no disrespect to you or anyone else. I have raced them with several organisations in our area and intend to race with more groups this next year. I personally prefer the Lightning or 1000cc midgets names, but not the mini name. I will just shut up and race and lets all have some fun. and, you are right. the 1000cc engines have revitalized this class due to their high stock HP for under $3K. No other class can do that!!!

This thread seems to coincide with Plymouth running the micros under USAC sanction and billed as 600 sprints. The cars are small and look like the bigger sprint cars just scaled down. I don't see the harm in mini or micro. If someone asks me what I race I just tell them mini sprint, if they know what a sprint car is they'll understand. So the idea is to get more eyes on the racing and using an attractive name to do so without it seeming "slow". I don't have a problem with micro or mini, but it also doesn't sound fast if I were someone on the outside.

Dad,

I think you need to consider what you overall goal is with the name.

The general public has no idea what a "midget race" is, or a "sprint" car race, let alone a mini-sprint, or a wing.

If you are trying to draw young families with kids for a nights enjoyment you have to be desctiptive, such as "lightning fast open wheel race cars" in your ads.

Most folks don't know a sprint car from a golf cart so being technical about the name has no bearing really.

As for race folks who you wish to draw and take part; possibly "Compact Sprints" has the better connotation than Mini-sprint.

Not to down playing midgets but they are becoming so rare, average sports fans or folks looking for a night out would have no idea what you are talking about, maybe a some folks from Wisconsin/Indiana would but I would think it to be rare.

I would get some feed back from non-racing people. Think of the crowd you wish to appeal to. Show them the cars and have them describe them. Maybe a new simple desciptive name will set the series on fire and be super successful.

The big thing is to advertise. I see almost no advertising for races such as you are talking about. Good Luck.